Sunday Mill 99 facing 3b from aggro reg

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Sunday Mill 99 facing 3b from aggro reg

Post  AlreadyBeenVaped on Mon Mar 11, 2013 10:52 pm

Villain is considered to be a very aggro reg. He's been opening lots of pots but hasn't been 3betting too much (3b% is at 6% over 50 hands). He has pretty much left me alone, however I just doubled up 7 hands previous to this and finally have a stack he could probably comfortably 3b without being committed to.
However what concerns me are the stacks behind him: he's committed to the two stacks immediately behind him once he 3bets.

PokerStars Hand #95348939995: Tournament #710020010, $200+$15 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level XXVII (12500/25000) - 2013/03/10 22:09:17 ET
Table '710020010 600' 9-max Seat #8 is the button
Seat 1: acesover333 (567726 in chips)
Seat 2: Navigatorlg (1148952 in chips)
Seat 3: eisenhower1 (609345 in chips)
Seat 4: robtinnion (909577 in chips)
Seat 5: julesdAA (714958 in chips) --> 29bbs
Seat 6: Assad91 (937794 in chips) --> 37.5bbs
Seat 7: MauriceSch (305848 in chips)
Seat 8: scorpchess (260531 in chips)
Seat 9: capoch (527138 in chips)
acesover333: posts the ante 2500
Navigatorlg: posts the ante 2500
eisenhower1: posts the ante 2500
robtinnion: posts the ante 2500
julesdAA: posts the ante 2500
Assad91: posts the ante 2500
MauriceSch: posts the ante 2500
scorpchess: posts the ante 2500
capoch: posts the ante 2500
capoch: posts small blind 12500
acesover333: posts big blind 25000
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to julesdAA [9c 9s]
Navigatorlg: folds
eisenhower1: folds
robtinnion: folds
julesdAA: raises 25000 to 50000
Assad91: raises 54742 to 104742
MauriceSch: folds
scorpchess: folds
capoch: folds
acesover333: folds
julesdAA: ??????
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Re: Sunday Mill 99 facing 3b from aggro reg

Post  Smoker.B. on Mon Mar 11, 2013 11:09 pm

4b to 210k / fold

still got 20 beibs to fuck with Twisted Evil
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Re: Sunday Mill 99 facing 3b from aggro reg

Post  JodaB. on Tue Mar 12, 2013 3:25 am

Smoker.B. wrote:4b to 210k / fold

still got 20 beibs to fuck with Twisted Evil
how do your cash backers feel about 4bet folding with 100bbs?
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Re: Sunday Mill 99 facing 3b from aggro reg

Post  RWPKRPLR1 on Tue Mar 12, 2013 3:39 am

I know your looking for Joda's advice, But I'm going to give you my thought's here. I hope you don't mind.

I think this would be a good time to fold and preserve your stack. You don't want to be flatting OOP. If I were to 4bet, It would have to be AI giving your opponent odds to flip with you or even worse call you with a premium that has you crushed.

If your fine with a flip go for it and ship, but I think you can find a better spot. There are to many factors that are against you on this hand.

Just my Two Cents. Here comes Joda.... king

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Re: Sunday Mill 99 facing 3b from aggro reg

Post  REEBS77 on Tue Mar 12, 2013 8:16 am

I would fold if I were thinking enough in game... if I were OI I'd prob ship and hate my life after...

I think vs his calling range you likely have ~40% equity... and you said he hasn't been 3 betting too much. If he views you as a good reg, then I think his 3 bet bluffing range in the SM is likely pretty small. There are a lot of better spots for him elsewhere.

Hard for me to put a really accurate range on sickos in the SM though as I have zero experience. Would love to hear btip chime in Rolling Eyes
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Re: Sunday Mill 99 facing 3b from aggro reg

Post  Smoker.B. on Tue Mar 12, 2013 10:11 am

JodaB. wrote:
Smoker.B. wrote:4b to 210k / fold

still got 20 beibs to fuck with Twisted Evil
how do your cash backers feel about 4bet folding with 100bbs?

woahhhhh

Mad

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Re: Sunday Mill 99 facing 3b from aggro reg

Post  Smoker.B. on Tue Mar 12, 2013 11:32 am

k, im just gonna give my thoughts from a deep stacked POV

im not saying its right or wrong, but I dont think its horrible like joda seems to think. this isnt open/folding 8bb like in turbo's , this is my thoughts:

First of all 4b folding with 29bb to start the hand is probably unorthodox for sure, but I think given the circumstances , its not terry

jules is a nitty reg, (he will admit this) Im not exactly sure what he run's but im guessing its def on the nittier side of things Razz

lets first assess "aggro" villians 3b range... sure he has some bigr hands in his range, TT+ AJ, AQ, AK, mayybe KQs for sure.. but I also think he has some trash in his range Ax, KJo, small pairs and maybe other random crap that he is trying to take the pot down pre.

a small 4b from jules is scary as shit, makes him rep super strong in a spot where we still have some fold equity bounce

a 4b from jules forces villian to dump his trash, hes never 5b jamming garbage here, he will only really be cramming big hands, he would be dumping hands like ATo, KQ, maybe even stronger

so while yes, he may be comited to smaller stacks behind him, but given his stack, he can gamble a little bit and get it in a little light with them, but with jules he has to be somewhat stronger

in hands like this ive learned its not just the spot that you are in that makes life difficult for you, its about the spot you can put your villian in

ALWAYS THINK 1 BET OR 1 STREET AHEAD, NOT JUST YOUR CURRENT SPOT


*disclaimer* this is deep in the mill ball and i get that, im not saying my thoughts are right or wrong, its just something to think about and its the first thing i thought of when I saw this HH

Twisted Evil



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Re: Sunday Mill 99 facing 3b from aggro reg

Post  JodaB. on Tue Mar 12, 2013 1:37 pm

Smoker.B. wrote:k, im just gonna give my thoughts from a deep stacked POV

im not saying its right or wrong, but I dont think its horrible like joda seems to think. this isnt open/folding 8bb like in turbo's , this is my thoughts:

First of all 4b folding with 29bb to start the hand is probably unorthodox for sure, but I think given the circumstances , its not terry

jules is a nitty reg, (he will admit this) Im not exactly sure what he run's but im guessing its def on the nittier side of things Razz

lets first assess "aggro" villians 3b range... sure he has some bigr hands in his range, TT+ AJ, AQ, AK, mayybe KQs for sure.. but I also think he has some trash in his range Ax, KJo, small pairs and maybe other random crap that he is trying to take the pot down pre.

a small 4b from jules is scary as shit, makes him rep super strong in a spot where we still have some fold equity bounce

a 4b from jules forces villian to dump his trash, hes never 5b jamming garbage here, he will only really be cramming big hands, he would be dumping hands like ATo, KQ, maybe even stronger

so while yes, he may be comited to smaller stacks behind him, but given his stack, he can gamble a little bit and get it in a little light with them, but with jules he has to be somewhat stronger

in hands like this ive learned its not just the spot that you are in that makes life difficult for you, its about the spot you can put your villian in

ALWAYS THINK 1 BET OR 1 STREET AHEAD, NOT JUST YOUR CURRENT SPOT


*disclaimer* this is deep in the mill ball and i get that, im not saying my thoughts are right or wrong, its just something to think about and its the first thing i thought of when I saw this HH

Twisted Evil



you didn't answer me though you just put an emotioncon up and then ignored me...
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Re: Sunday Mill 99 facing 3b from aggro reg

Post  Smoker.B. on Tue Mar 12, 2013 1:42 pm

JodaB. wrote:



you didn't answer me though you just put an emotioncon up and then ignored me...[/quote]

well, i dont even play NL cash , i play PLO- and im not backed, so i dont get your frame of reference
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Re: Sunday Mill 99 facing 3b from aggro reg

Post  JodaB. on Tue Mar 12, 2013 2:06 pm

Smoker.B. wrote:
JodaB. wrote:



you didn't answer me though you just put an emotioncon up and then ignored me...

well, i dont even play NL cash , i play PLO- and im not backed, so i dont get your frame of reference [/quote]Frame of reference is not at all the right words. you mean you don't get what I am referring to. You had backers and you were playing plo and cash. This is what I am REFERRING to and I don't understand how you can't relate those 2.

Regardless, I am asking you how they reacted when they saw you 4bet/fold 100bbs deep
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Re: Sunday Mill 99 facing 3b from aggro reg

Post  Smoker.B. on Tue Mar 12, 2013 4:36 pm

JodaB. wrote:
Smoker.B. wrote:
JodaB. wrote:



you didn't answer me though you just put an emotioncon up and then ignored me...

well, i dont even play NL cash , i play PLO- and im not backed, so i dont get your frame of reference
Frame of reference is not at all the right words. you mean you don't get what I am referring to. You had backers and you were playing plo and cash. This is what I am REFERRING to and I don't understand how you can't relate those 2.

Regardless, I am asking you how they reacted when they saw you 4bet/fold 100bbs deep[/quote]

dont think i ever 4b/folded 100 bb deep in a cash game tbh affraid
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Re: Sunday Mill 99 facing 3b from aggro reg

Post  JodaB. on Tue Mar 12, 2013 4:45 pm

Smoker.B. wrote:


dont think i ever 4b/folded 100 bb deep in a cash game tbh affraid
If you were 4bet folding w/100bbs proper reads I'd lose respect for your backers if they didn't move you down to .5/.10.

so if 4bet folding @ 100bbs isn't a good idea imagine with 40bbs and antes in play...because the smaller our stack the better odds we have to not fold our hand to a 5bet shove right?
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Re: Sunday Mill 99 facing 3b from aggro reg

Post  RWPKRPLR1 on Wed Mar 13, 2013 3:19 am

So Joda what's your take on this hand?

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Re: Sunday Mill 99 facing 3b from aggro reg

Post  JodaB. on Wed Mar 13, 2013 1:24 pm

I think 4betting x amount in a spot like this vs a good reg isn't going to be correct. It seems to me we should be generally shoving or folding. If we look at it like that TT seems to be the bottom of our range. knowing he is a reg, having the shorter stack behind him will shore up his range slightly, but at the same time its correct for him to ignore the shorties so I wouldn't think he'd be pure nuts.

Do we get 99 in? Well, do we have fold equity? Certainly we have some % but we need to ask what kind of range will villain 3bet? Just nuts? not likely Polarized? is he 3betting hands like J8s, 22 A2s etc. prob some % but without specific reads I don't think we can adjust to that.

What about an extended value range like 77, KQs, A9s? I think thats more likely, and I might adjust to it slightly but we really don't have any reads at this point for that.

So I think 99 is def a close spot, i think we can and should consider playing it here, but in the end I don't think we have enough reads to truly open our range.

That being said if villain really is agrro then we should be able to ship or 4bet call.

I see you posted a 3bet stat after 50 hands and I think thats a pretty arbitrary sample size. What we need here is a showdown after a 3bet pot in a similar spot vs another reg and we need to see either a medium hands like kjs kqs 77, or a bottom end hand like k2s or 76o, then we can make a better adjustment

Fold is best I think, but I don't mind, a 4bet call or a jam, i think we should have a better read though.
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Re: Sunday Mill 99 facing 3b from aggro reg

Post  JodaB. on Wed Mar 13, 2013 1:25 pm

REEBS77 wrote: Would love to hear btip chime in Rolling Eyes
He was invited Wink He said the difference between me and him was I want people know and he doesn't ;p
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Re: Sunday Mill 99 facing 3b from aggro reg

Post  Smoker.B. on Fri Mar 15, 2013 12:48 am

how can u think of flatting here lol, that seems a hell of alot worse than 4 betting to me ...

just c/f when an over card comes????

Embarassed
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