Adjusting stack sizes

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Adjusting stack sizes

Post  RWPKRPLR1 on Tue Jul 23, 2013 4:05 pm

Working on my ranges still, but I need to clarify something...

Ive seen a couple different stack size charts out there and was wondering if I am using the right one..

The First one is

0-10bb
11-15bb
16-22bb
23-35bb
35-45bb
45+bb

and the second is

0-15bb
16-25bb
26-35bb
36-50bb
50+bb


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Re: Adjusting stack sizes

Post  JodaB. on Tue Jul 23, 2013 4:20 pm

everyone is wrong. Throw them out. Wink

post some short stack examples i will show you something redic
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Re: Adjusting stack sizes

Post  RWPKRPLR1 on Tue Jul 23, 2013 4:36 pm

PokerStars Hand #101205136911: Tournament #758636803, $2.28+$0.22 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level XVI (1250/2500) - 2013/07/10 4:17:34 ET
Table '758636803 16' 9-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: Duke4577 (77072 in chips)
Seat 2: ROBERTH00D3 (30591 in chips)
Seat 4: abobora71 (21674 in chips)
Seat 5: lcurcio (41081 in chips)
Seat 6: matejudas (6796 in chips)
Seat 7: Anatoly TTTT (3644 in chips)
Seat 8: ryan1111 (89142 in chips)
Duke4577: posts the ante 250
ROBERTH00D3: posts the ante 250
abobora71: posts the ante 250
lcurcio: posts the ante 250
matejudas: posts the ante 250
Anatoly TTTT: posts the ante 250
ryan1111: posts the ante 250
ROBERTH00D3: posts small blind 1250
abobora71: posts big blind 2500
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to ryan1111 [Ac Jd]
lcurcio: folds
matejudas: folds
Anatoly TTTT: raises 894 to 3394 and is all-in
ryan1111: raises 4106 to 7500
Duke4577: folds
ROBERTH00D3: folds
abobora71: folds
Uncalled bet (4106) returned to ryan1111
*** FLOP *** [Kh 4h Js]
*** TURN *** [Kh 4h Js] [6c]
*** RIVER *** [Kh 4h Js 6c] [8h]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Anatoly TTTT: shows [Tc Ah] (high card Ace)
ryan1111: shows [Ac Jd] (a pair of Jacks)
ryan1111 collected 12288 from pot
Anatoly TTTT finished the tournament in 7th place and received $12.31.
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 12288 | Rake 0
Board [Kh 4h Js 6c 8h]
Seat 1: Duke4577 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: ROBERTH00D3 (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 4: abobora71 (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 5: lcurcio folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: matejudas folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: Anatoly TTTT showed [Tc Ah] and lost with high card Ace
Seat 8: ryan1111 showed [Ac Jd] and won (12288) with a pair of Jacks

PokerStars Hand #101204663342: Tournament #758636803, $2.28+$0.22 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level XII (500/1000) - 2013/07/10 3:48:39 ET
Table '758636803 16' 9-max Seat #6 is the button
Seat 1: Goillegoill (17155 in chips)
Seat 2: Victor123390 (9515 in chips)
Seat 3: Renni1982 (25891 in chips)
Seat 4: Alwaid (8865 in chips)
Seat 5: lcurcio (16085 in chips)
Seat 6: Duke4577 (6598 in chips)
Seat 8: ryan1111 (4652 in chips)
Goillegoill: posts the ante 100
Victor123390: posts the ante 100
Renni1982: posts the ante 100
Alwaid: posts the ante 100
lcurcio: posts the ante 100
Duke4577: posts the ante 100
ryan1111: posts the ante 100
ryan1111: posts small blind 500
Goillegoill: posts big blind 1000
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to ryan1111 [As 9h]
Victor123390: folds
Renni1982: folds
Alwaid: folds
lcurcio: folds
Duke4577: folds
ryan1111: raises 3552 to 4552 and is all-in
Goillegoill: calls 3552
*** FLOP *** [2d Td 4c]
*** TURN *** [2d Td 4c] [8h]
*** RIVER *** [2d Td 4c 8h] [9s]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
ryan1111: shows [As 9h] (a pair of Nines)
Goillegoill: shows [Jh 5d] (high card Jack)
ryan1111 collected 9804 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 9804 | Rake 0
Board [2d Td 4c 8h 9s]
Seat 1: Goillegoill (big blind) showed [Jh 5d] and lost with high card Jack
Seat 2: Victor123390 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: Renni1982 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: Alwaid folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: lcurcio folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: Duke4577 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: ryan1111 (small blind) showed [As 9h] and won (9804) with a pair of Nines

PokerStars Hand #101204703393: Tournament #758636803, $2.28+$0.22 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level XII (500/1000) - 2013/07/10 3:51:11 ET
Table '758636803 16' 9-max Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: Goillegoill (21003 in chips)
Seat 2: Victor123390 (7715 in chips)
Seat 3: Renni1982 (12293 in chips)
Seat 4: Alwaid (8565 in chips)
Seat 5: lcurcio (15785 in chips)
Seat 6: Duke4577 (13996 in chips)
Seat 7: Anatoly TTTT (12068 in chips)
Seat 8: ryan1111 (9604 in chips)
Seat 9: Jenek084 (13096 in chips)
Goillegoill: posts the ante 100
Victor123390: posts the ante 100
Renni1982: posts the ante 100
Alwaid: posts the ante 100
lcurcio: posts the ante 100
Duke4577: posts the ante 100
Anatoly TTTT: posts the ante 100
ryan1111: posts the ante 100
Jenek084: posts the ante 100
Renni1982: posts small blind 500
Alwaid: posts big blind 1000
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to ryan1111 [As Jh]
lcurcio: folds
Duke4577: folds
Anatoly TTTT: folds
ryan1111: raises 8504 to 9504 and is all-in
Jenek084: folds
Goillegoill: folds
Victor123390: folds
Renni1982: folds
Alwaid: calls 7465 and is all-in
Uncalled bet (1039) returned to ryan1111
*** FLOP *** [5s 7h Js]
*** TURN *** [5s 7h Js] [Qs]
*** RIVER *** [5s 7h Js Qs] [Qc]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Alwaid: shows [6c 6d] (two pair, Queens and Sixes)
ryan1111: shows [As Jh] (two pair, Queens and Jacks)
ryan1111 collected 18330 from pot
Alwaid finished the tournament in 27th place and received $2.66.
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 18330 | Rake 0
Board [5s 7h Js Qs Qc]
Seat 1: Goillegoill folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: Victor123390 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: Renni1982 (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 4: Alwaid (big blind) showed [6c 6d] and lost with two pair, Queens and Sixes
Seat 5: lcurcio folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: Duke4577 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: Anatoly TTTT folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: ryan1111 showed [As Jh] and won (18330) with two pair, Queens and Jacks
Seat 9: Jenek084 folded before Flop (didn't bet)

PokerStars Hand #101204926086: Tournament #758636803, $2.28+$0.22 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level XIV (800/1600) - 2013/07/10 4:05:44 ET
Table '758636803 16' 9-max Seat #5 is the button
Seat 4: abobora71 (38924 in chips)
Seat 5: lcurcio (32831 in chips)
Seat 7: Anatoly TTTT (4668 in chips)
Seat 8: ryan1111 (58170 in chips)
Seat 9: ferlr82 (4640 in chips)
abobora71: posts the ante 150
lcurcio: posts the ante 150
Anatoly TTTT: posts the ante 150
ryan1111: posts the ante 150
ferlr82: posts the ante 150
Anatoly TTTT: posts small blind 800
ryan1111: posts big blind 1600
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to ryan1111 [Kc 8s]
ferlr82: raises 2890 to 4490 and is all-in
abobora71: folds
lcurcio: folds
Anatoly TTTT: folds
ryan1111: calls 2890
*** FLOP *** [Jd 4s Qs]
*** TURN *** [Jd 4s Qs] [5s]
*** RIVER *** [Jd 4s Qs 5s] [4c]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
ryan1111: shows [Kc 8s] (a pair of Fours)
ferlr82: shows [7c Ac] (a pair of Fours - Ace kicker)
ferlr82 collected 10530 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 10530 | Rake 0
Board [Jd 4s Qs 5s 4c]
Seat 4: abobora71 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: lcurcio (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: Anatoly TTTT (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 8: ryan1111 (big blind) showed [Kc 8s] and lost with a pair of Fours
Seat 9: ferlr82 showed [7c Ac] and won (10530) with a pair of Fours






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Re: Adjusting stack sizes

Post  JodaB. on Tue Jul 23, 2013 4:45 pm

ha damn, none of those help me explain..


Lets do 12 bbs on the button with antes.

assuming opponents are tight bad and don't adjust what is your min raising range?
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Re: Adjusting stack sizes

Post  RWPKRPLR1 on Tue Jul 23, 2013 4:48 pm

Would it be the same as my shoving range?

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Re: Adjusting stack sizes

Post  JodaB. on Tue Jul 23, 2013 4:48 pm

RWPKRPLR1 wrote:Would it be the same as my shoving range?
you can't shove and min raise at the same time Wink

what if you could only min and opponents only shove or fold?
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Re: Adjusting stack sizes

Post  RWPKRPLR1 on Tue Jul 23, 2013 4:51 pm

22+,ATs+,KTs+,QTs+,JTs,ATo+,KTo+,QTo+,JTo

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Re: Adjusting stack sizes

Post  JodaB. on Tue Jul 23, 2013 4:53 pm

RWPKRPLR1 wrote:22+,ATs+,KTs+,QTs+,JTs,ATo+,KTo+,QTo+,JTo
how you come up with those and whats the purpose of raising (which of the 3 reasons for each hands?)
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Re: Adjusting stack sizes

Post  RWPKRPLR1 on Tue Jul 23, 2013 5:02 pm

55+,AJs+,KQs,AQo+

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Re: Adjusting stack sizes

Post  JodaB. on Tue Jul 23, 2013 5:05 pm

RWPKRPLR1 wrote:55+,AJs+,KQs,AQo+
did you just throw out some hands for no reason/ ;p?
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Re: Adjusting stack sizes

Post  RWPKRPLR1 on Tue Jul 23, 2013 5:06 pm

oh sorry thats my value range, everything else would be a steal

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Re: Adjusting stack sizes

Post  JodaB. on Tue Jul 23, 2013 5:09 pm

RWPKRPLR1 wrote:oh sorry thats my value range, everything else would be a steal
alright ill skip some math and tell you that each opponent is only calling with 10% of hands and folding the rest. That means atc is +ev.....now what are we opening?
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Re: Adjusting stack sizes

Post  RWPKRPLR1 on Tue Jul 23, 2013 5:11 pm

well ATC and dont you mean shoving 10%
you said earlier that he has two options shove or fold

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Re: Adjusting stack sizes

Post  JodaB. on Tue Jul 23, 2013 5:17 pm

RWPKRPLR1 wrote:well ATC and dont you mean shoving 10%
you said earlier that he has two options shove or fold
ha yes, ok then what do we call vs a 3bet when we min atc?
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Re: Adjusting stack sizes

Post  RWPKRPLR1 on Tue Jul 23, 2013 5:20 pm

55+,AJs+,KQs,AQo+ all have sufficient equity against this range 22+,ATs+,KQs,AJo+

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Re: Adjusting stack sizes

Post  JodaB. on Tue Jul 23, 2013 5:22 pm

RWPKRPLR1 wrote:55+,AJs+,KQs,AQo+ all have sufficient equity against this range 22+,ATs+,KQs,AJo+
well we want to match the equity we have vs the odds we are getting....
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Re: Adjusting stack sizes

Post  RWPKRPLR1 on Tue Jul 23, 2013 5:28 pm

i did that... each hand vs their range

and i kinda get your point it doesn't matter about stack sizes, villains don't adjust

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Re: Adjusting stack sizes

Post  JodaB. on Tue Jul 23, 2013 5:31 pm

RWPKRPLR1 wrote:i did that... each hand vs their range

and i kinda get your point it doesn't matter about stack sizes, villains don't adjust
yes but there are blinds antes and a min raise already in the pot right?
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Re: Adjusting stack sizes

Post  RWPKRPLR1 on Tue Jul 23, 2013 5:42 pm

oops no they wern't we need 39% equity(rounded)
44+,ATs+,KTs+,QTs+,JTs,AJo+

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Re: Adjusting stack sizes

Post  JodaB. on Tue Jul 23, 2013 5:49 pm

RWPKRPLR1 wrote:oops no they wern't we need 39% equity(rounded)
44+,ATs+,KTs+,QTs+,JTs,AJo+
ok then since we can min call these hands vs non adjusting opp's ( assuming correct math) I reckon it is +ev to shove.
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Re: Adjusting stack sizes

Post  JodaB. on Tue Jul 23, 2013 5:59 pm

now lets look at the same spot vs opponents with 8bbs and the same calling range. Lets assume we cannot shove...

What's our opening range? Whats our calling range vs a 3bet% (10% villain 3bet)?
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Re: Adjusting stack sizes

Post  RWPKRPLR1 on Tue Jul 23, 2013 6:02 pm

but better as a min raise

here is how i did the numbers

(antes+SB+BB+raise+bbcall&shove) / (call)

(225+100+200+400+2175) / 1975 = 1.57

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Re: Adjusting stack sizes

Post  RWPKRPLR1 on Tue Jul 23, 2013 6:04 pm

youre a beast thx, give me a minute brb

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Re: Adjusting stack sizes

Post  RWPKRPLR1 on Tue Jul 23, 2013 6:17 pm

we need 1.7-1 against a bb push. min raise ATC, call 44+,ATs+,KTs+,QTs+,JTs,AJo+,KQo (only added on KQo)

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Re: Adjusting stack sizes

Post  JodaB. on Tue Jul 23, 2013 6:26 pm

RWPKRPLR1 wrote:we need 1.7-1 against a bb push. min raise ATC, call 44+,ATs+,KTs+,QTs+,JTs,AJo+,KQo (only added on KQo)
if the math is correct then i reckon we can shove our entire call range profitably
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