Range the Blinds

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Range the Blinds

Post  RWPKRPLR1 on Mon Jul 29, 2013 9:22 pm

I'm going to throw out some 3bet shove ranges for my Opponents in the blinds against my BTN Open. I'm not going to worry about doing the min calling ranges for now, Just going to assign ranges. I will be posting more than just this hand. I would like your feedback. thx... (these will be against unknown players)

PokerStars Hand #79637542170: Tournament #553656000, $2.28+$0.22 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level XI (400/800) - 2012/04/29 13:38:21 ET
Table '553656000 16' 9-max Seat #5 is the button
Seat 1: andgigant (8974 in chips)
Seat 4: KNAR777 (6532 in chips)
Seat 5: ryan1111 (11377 in chips)
Seat 6: Leo20110110 (12375 in chips)
Seat 7: iAudrius (15895 in chips)
Seat 8: PANTANEIRO9 (18124 in chips)
Seat 9: 1flightaway (5271 in chips)
andgigant: posts the ante 75
KNAR777: posts the ante 75
ryan1111: posts the ante 75
Leo20110110: posts the ante 75
iAudrius: posts the ante 75
PANTANEIRO9: posts the ante 75
1flightaway: posts the ante 75
Leo20110110: posts small blind 400
iAudrius: posts big blind 800
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to ryan1111
PANTANEIRO9: folds
1flightaway: folds
andgigant: folds
KNAR777: folds
ryan1111: Min Raise ATC
Leo20110110: 3B range(22+,ATs+,KTs+,QTs+,JTs,ATo+,KQo)
iAudrius: 3B Range(77+,ATs+,KQs,AJo+)

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Re: Range the Blinds

Post  JodaB. on Tue Jul 30, 2013 12:03 am

Why do you feel the bb shoves tighter?
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Re: Range the Blinds

Post  RWPKRPLR1 on Tue Jul 30, 2013 4:06 am

Because not all villains think of it as effective stacks. If villain does he is going to have roughly the same range as the small blind. I guess I can narrow this down by finding out if he is a reg or not.

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Re: Range the Blinds

Post  JodaB. on Tue Jul 30, 2013 10:51 am

RWPKRPLR1 wrote:Because not all villains think of it as effective stacks. If villain does he is going to have roughly the same range as the small blind. I guess I can narrow this down by finding out if he is a reg or not.
I'm not sure you answered the question as to why the bb has a tighter range than the sb Wink
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Re: Range the Blinds

Post  RWPKRPLR1 on Tue Jul 30, 2013 1:04 pm

JodaB. wrote:
RWPKRPLR1 wrote:Because not all villains think of it as effective stacks. If villain does he is going to have roughly the same range as the small blind. I guess I can narrow this down by finding out if he is a reg or not.
I'm not sure you answered the question as to why the bb has a tighter range than the sb Wink

Oi Very Happy ok they have the same range.


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Re: Range the Blinds

Post  JodaB. on Tue Jul 30, 2013 2:09 pm

RWPKRPLR1 wrote:
JodaB. wrote:
RWPKRPLR1 wrote:Because not all villains think of it as effective stacks. If villain does he is going to have roughly the same range as the small blind. I guess I can narrow this down by finding out if he is a reg or not.
I'm not sure you answered the question as to why the bb has a tighter range than the sb Wink

Oi Very Happy ok they have the same range.

Why would they have the same range when the sb has to push into two people and the bb only into one?
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Re: Range the Blinds

Post  RWPKRPLR1 on Tue Jul 30, 2013 3:45 pm

You are right! The SB has shoving tighter than the BB
Don't tell me which, if any, are any of my two ranges good?

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Re: Range the Blinds

Post  JodaB. on Tue Jul 30, 2013 4:30 pm

RWPKRPLR1 wrote:You are right! The SB has shoving tighter than the BB
Don't tell me which, if any, are any of my two ranges good?
I like the small blind range for a rando, bb can be a little wider. I dont' think all randos shove all pair, but I think they always have some spew in their range so just think it might be looser but prob shouldn't make it tighter.
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Re: Range the Blinds

Post  RWPKRPLR1 on Tue Jul 30, 2013 4:32 pm

Because he has a deeper stack<---so wrong tho

how about these for their 3bet shove for value ranges

SB 77+,ATs+,KJs+,ATo+,KQo
BB 22+,ATs+,KTs+,QTs+,JTs,ATo+,KQo

edit: oops posted while you were posting brb

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Re: Range the Blinds

Post  RWPKRPLR1 on Tue Jul 30, 2013 4:38 pm

I was thinking about adding spew to his range, but how would i determine what hands he will spew with?

bb- 22+,A2s+,KTs+,QTs+,JTs,ATo+,KTo+,QTo+,JTo too wide??

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Re: Range the Blinds

Post  JodaB. on Tue Jul 30, 2013 4:45 pm

RWPKRPLR1 wrote:I was thinking about adding spew to his range, but how would i determine what hands he will spew with?

bb- 22+,A2s+,KTs+,QTs+,JTs,ATo+,KTo+,QTo+,JTo too wide??
Ya i like that for bb. You don't worry about the hands you just understand that once you do the math you are prob a little better than you think equity wise. Or you can add something in but you don't want to mess with unknown information to much if you don't have to.
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Re: Range the Blinds

Post  RWPKRPLR1 on Tue Jul 30, 2013 4:48 pm

I added calling hands as his spew

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Re: Range the Blinds

Post  JodaB. on Tue Jul 30, 2013 5:44 pm

RWPKRPLR1 wrote:I added calling hands as his spew
fair enough, i think his pushing range (bb) is close to that anyways, but somewhere around there and slightly wider with some bluff.
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Re: Range the Blinds

Post  RWPKRPLR1 on Tue Jul 30, 2013 7:33 pm


PokerStars Hand #101890758524: Tournament #765551854, $2.28+$0.22 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level VII (125/250) - 2013/07/25 19:29:37 ET
Table '765551854 15' 9-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: ryan1111 (4333 in chips)
Seat 2: DocentJV (3890 in chips)
Seat 3: Negreanu220 (1612 in chips)
Seat 4: Davesz7 (1851 in chips)
Seat 5: guechito (2817 in chips)
Seat 7: N_Marrajo_H (3251 in chips)
Seat 8: Jsol2000 (1020 in chips)
Seat 9: salander_y (5567 in chips)
ryan1111: posts the ante 25
DocentJV: posts the ante 25
Negreanu220: posts the ante 25
Davesz7: posts the ante 25
guechito: posts the ante 25
N_Marrajo_H: posts the ante 25
Jsol2000: posts the ante 25
salander_y: posts the ante 25
DocentJV: posts small blind 125
Negreanu220: posts big blind 250
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to ryan1111 [2c 2h]
Davesz7: folds
guechito: folds
N_Marrajo_H: folds
Jsol2000: folds
salander_y: folds
ryan1111: raises 250 to 500
DocentJV: 22+,ATs+,KTs+,QTs+,JTs,ATo+,KQo
Negreanu220: 22+,A2s+,KTs+,QTs+,JTs,A2o+,KTo+,QTo+,JTo

fold against sb push, call BB push... what do you think of my ranges?

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Re: Range the Blinds

Post  JodaB. on Tue Jul 30, 2013 7:38 pm

seems about right.
Now I might push the bottom of my calling range so that I don't induce wider 3bet shoves. Does that make sense?

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Re: Range the Blinds

Post  RWPKRPLR1 on Tue Jul 30, 2013 7:42 pm

kinda,going to take a stab at this

If we push the bottom of our range, we make our opponent cut out the bottom of his. this is maximizing fold equity.

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Re: Range the Blinds

Post  JodaB. on Tue Jul 30, 2013 8:03 pm

RWPKRPLR1 wrote:kinda,going to take a stab at this

If we push the bottom of our range, we make our opponent cut out the bottom of his. this is maximizing fold equity.
Yes but only the bottom of our min/calling range. we will still min our min/folding range even though we induce some wider shoves (its not that much wider by default here).
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Re: Range the Blinds

Post  RWPKRPLR1 on Tue Jul 30, 2013 8:29 pm

Shove
99-33,ATs,KJs+,AJo-ATo,KQo
MIN/call
TT+,AJs+,AQo+
MIN/FOLD
Everything else

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Re: Range the Blinds

Post  JodaB. on Tue Jul 30, 2013 9:06 pm

RWPKRPLR1 wrote:Shove
99-33,ATs,KJs+,AJo-ATo,KQo
MIN/call
TT+,AJs+,AQo+
MIN/FOLD
Everything else
seems quite reasonable.
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Re: Range the Blinds

Post  RWPKRPLR1 on Wed Jul 31, 2013 4:07 pm

Couple questions before we move on...

Can I use the Nash ranges I created a while back for my min call and shove ranges?
&
At what stack size can I start adding steal and post flop hands into ranges? Or is it really villain dependant. I was thinking below 15bb ranges should be all value and a little spew, but as our ranges get tighter we should add some steals, I just don't know when!!

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Re: Range the Blinds

Post  RWPKRPLR1 on Wed Jul 31, 2013 7:29 pm

villains are randoms

PokerStars Hand #101286570377: Tournament #759469248, $2.28+$0.22 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level VIII (150/300) - 2013/07/11 23:07:49 ET
Table '759469248 20' 9-max Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: carlospaesg (8230 in chips)
Seat 2: ryan1111 (2330 in chips)
Seat 4: Darsolation (3879 in chips)
Seat 5: Gazasu (1498 in chips) is sitting out
Seat 6: Bugout434 (6215 in chips)
Seat 8: Alfa2012 (6182 in chips)
Seat 9: riberb (7504 in chips)
carlospaesg: posts the ante 25
ryan1111: posts the ante 25
Darsolation: posts the ante 25
Gazasu: posts the ante 25
Bugout434: posts the ante 25
Alfa2012: posts the ante 25
riberb: posts the ante 25
Darsolation: posts small blind 150
Gazasu: posts big blind 300
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to ryan1111 [Qc 7h]
Bugout434: folds
Alfa2012: folds
riberb: folds
carlospaesg: folds
ryan1111: (min/fold to sb)(min/call bb)
Darsolation: shove range (22+,ATs+,KTs+,QTs+,JTs,ATo+,KQo)
Gazasu: shove range (22+,A2s+,KTs+,QTs+,JTs,A2o+,KTo+,QTo+,JTo)

what do you think?

Next hand i will find a hand that i have an image of my opponent, so i can work on some adjustments

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Re: Range the Blinds

Post  JodaB. on Wed Jul 31, 2013 7:41 pm

RWPKRPLR1 wrote:Couple questions before we move on...

Can I use the Nash ranges I created a while back for my min call and shove ranges?
&
At what stack size can I start adding steal and post flop hands into ranges? Or is it really villain dependant. I was thinking below 15bb ranges should be all value and a little spew, but as our ranges get tighter we should add some steals, I just don't know when!!
The nash hands are helpful to understand the order in which we call our shove (ie bottom of our range).

I am not if you are asking when we can add those hands into our own range or into villains range?
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Re: Range the Blinds

Post  RWPKRPLR1 on Wed Jul 31, 2013 7:55 pm

opponents range

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Re: Range the Blinds

Post  JodaB. on Wed Jul 31, 2013 8:02 pm

RWPKRPLR1 wrote:villains are randoms

PokerStars Hand #101286570377: Tournament #759469248, $2.28+$0.22 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level VIII (150/300) - 2013/07/11 23:07:49 ET
Table '759469248 20' 9-max Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: carlospaesg (8230 in chips)
Seat 2: ryan1111 (2330 in chips)
Seat 4: Darsolation (3879 in chips)
Seat 5: Gazasu (1498 in chips) is sitting out
Seat 6: Bugout434 (6215 in chips)
Seat 8: Alfa2012 (6182 in chips)
Seat 9: riberb (7504 in chips)
carlospaesg: posts the ante 25
ryan1111: posts the ante 25
Darsolation: posts the ante 25
Gazasu: posts the ante 25
Bugout434: posts the ante 25
Alfa2012: posts the ante 25
riberb: posts the ante 25
Darsolation: posts small blind 150
Gazasu: posts big blind 300
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to ryan1111 [Qc 7h]
Bugout434: folds
Alfa2012: folds
riberb: folds
carlospaesg: folds
ryan1111: (min/fold to sb)(min/call bb)
Darsolation: shove range (22+,ATs+,KTs+,QTs+,JTs,ATo+,KQo)
Gazasu: shove range (22+,A2s+,KTs+,QTs+,JTs,A2o+,KTo+,QTo+,JTo)

what do you think?

Next hand i will find a hand that i have an image of my opponent, so i can work on some adjustments
Firstly I see bb is sitting out so you are essentially bvb, but the sb won't reallize you are playing that way (will be tighter) so you should be shoving atc.

Second you have < 10bbs and in general you will always shove and not r/f that stack.

Yes we did example like that but they were just to understand how this all happens.

So I think even if the bb is sitting in we should shove our whole range (whatever it is).

But you can use your min/call range to think about what you would shove
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Re: Range the Blinds

Post  JodaB. on Wed Jul 31, 2013 8:10 pm

RWPKRPLR1 wrote:opponents range
Well our opponents don't usually think like that so we should look at each cause individually to a degree.
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Re: Range the Blinds

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