Notes..........

Page 1 of 4 1, 2, 3, 4  Next

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Notes..........

Post  RWPKRPLR1 on Wed Aug 07, 2013 4:49 am

TBH I Don't know if I am taking effective preflop notes.

Now that I am thinking about ranges more and more, note taking has become very relevant to help me adjust. Currently I use PT4's Note tracker to help me adjust my opening ranges. now I want to develop a good series of notes to track opening ranges of my opponents. Right now when I see hand go to showdown I make a note of the villains cards, Position, effective stack, ante or no ante and PT4 makes a note for the other villains calling range. Is this the way you would create a notes?or how would create your notes?

so this is what I'm doing now....

Let's say we're in the antes, we have seen a villain open raise UTG 3 times and each time he went to the showdown, my notes would look like this....

A UTG KTo 30, A UTG A9s 23, A UTG 88 24

Which I would to translate into a UTG w/antes opening range of  22+,A9s+,KTs+,QTs+,JTs,ATo+,KTo+,QTo+, JTo >22bb

or should his range look more like this?
88+,A9s+,KTs+,QTs+,JTs,ATo+,KTo+,QJo >22bb

RWPKRPLR1

Posts : 882
Likes : 22
Join date : 2013-01-14
Location : Ontario

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Notes..........

Post  JodaB. on Wed Aug 07, 2013 6:10 pm

RWPKRPLR1 wrote:
so this is what I'm doing now....

Let's say we're in the antes, we have seen a villain open raise UTG 3 times and each time he went to the showdown, my notes would look like this....

A UTG KTo 30, A UTG A9s 23, A UTG 88 24

Which I would to translate into a UTG w/antes opening range of  22+,A9s+,KTs+,QTs+,JTs,ATo+,KTo+,QTo+, JTo >22bb

or should his range look more like this?
88+,A9s+,KTs+,QTs+,JTs,ATo+,KTo+,QJo >22bb
If you see villain open kto how do you know they open qto?
avatar
JodaB.

Posts : 1327
Likes : 93
Join date : 2012-12-29

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Notes..........

Post  RWPKRPLR1 on Wed Aug 07, 2013 6:36 pm

We don't. so we should only go as far as we see?

RWPKRPLR1

Posts : 882
Likes : 22
Join date : 2013-01-14
Location : Ontario

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Notes..........

Post  JodaB. on Wed Aug 07, 2013 6:46 pm

RWPKRPLR1 wrote:We don't. so we should only go as far as we see?
Yes we do not want to make an adjustment that is not based on fact.

What is also important is to only note the outliers decisions we do not want to note things that we expect our villains to do, only those things that are out of character with what we would assume they would do.

So a player that is a reg min raising 18bbs with ako utg, is just something we naturally expect of them, so I wouldn't note it.

But if a reg 3x's utg with ak then we want to note the betsizing (as well as the hand) even though ak is a normal hand, the 3x is out of character.

So if villain 3x's ako utg, what can we expect with their min raise range in that same spot?
avatar
JodaB.

Posts : 1327
Likes : 93
Join date : 2012-12-29

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Notes..........

Post  RWPKRPLR1 on Wed Aug 07, 2013 8:47 pm

JodaB. wrote:
RWPKRPLR1 wrote:We don't. so we should only go as far as we see?
Yes we do not want to make an adjustment that is not based on fact.

What is also important is to only note the outliers decisions we do not want to note things that we expect our villains to do, only those things that are out of character with what we would assume they would do.

So a player that is a reg min raising 18bbs with ako utg, is just something we naturally expect of them, so I wouldn't note it.

But if a reg 3x's utg with ak then we want to note the betsizing (as well as the hand) even though ak is a normal hand, the 3x is out of character.

So if villain 3x's ako utg, what can we expect with their min raise range in that same spot?
that it will be looser

RWPKRPLR1

Posts : 882
Likes : 22
Join date : 2013-01-14
Location : Ontario

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Notes..........

Post  JodaB. on Wed Aug 07, 2013 9:26 pm

RWPKRPLR1 wrote:
JodaB. wrote:
RWPKRPLR1 wrote:We don't. so we should only go as far as we see?
Yes we do not want to make an adjustment that is not based on fact.

What is also important is to only note the outliers decisions we do not want to note things that we expect our villains to do, only those things that are out of character with what we would assume they would do.

So a player that is a reg min raising 18bbs with ako utg, is just something we naturally expect of them, so I wouldn't note it.

But if a reg 3x's utg with ak then we want to note the betsizing (as well as the hand) even though ak is a normal hand, the 3x is out of character.

So if villain 3x's ako utg, what can we expect with their min raise range in that same spot?
that it will be looser
no.  please don't misunderstand the question or overthink it, its a very simple and direct concept we have discussed.

We dont' know that a villains range is looser because they 3x AKo.

But we know that they don't have ako in their min raise range because we observed that they 3x Ako and therefore they don't min raise it.

so if they min raise then we know they don't have ak.

Do we need more examples of this?
avatar
JodaB.

Posts : 1327
Likes : 93
Join date : 2012-12-29

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Notes..........

Post  RWPKRPLR1 on Thu Aug 08, 2013 1:07 am

My bad I meant capped

RWPKRPLR1

Posts : 882
Likes : 22
Join date : 2013-01-14
Location : Ontario

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Notes..........

Post  JodaB. on Thu Aug 08, 2013 2:30 am

RWPKRPLR1 wrote:My bad I meant capped
I yes that makes sense, I think maybe even you were trying to say their range is 'weaker' which is correct too.

So thats how bet sizing tells can be important to note.

And yes we can definitely take bad notes that either don't help or they hurt us.

I was taught notes basics by Vekked and he was taught be jennifear.

http://www.pocketfives.com/articles/jennifear-s-guide-effective-note-taking-585558/

What you want to do with your notes is only note thing in which you would make an adjustment to.  So if you play a fishy player and they show up with a bad hand that you would never do, but you expected in their range, you wouldn't bother noting it.  

Some players note "super lagtard" but this isn't a useful note, that will show up in the hud.  We want something specific we can make an adjustment too.  So you don't have to note what adjustment you should take, but you should always write in a form that will remind you what adjustment the note should cause you to make.

here are some examples, what kind of adjustments might we make?

good reg
bb my bu late rb flat k9o 20ishbbs eff
cu vs hj fti kk prb 20bbs hj min open *** fti means fail to iso, meaning they should have . jammed to iso a shorty but choose to flat

elite reg
utg lateish 5ishbbs j6o ?  ***question mark means I'm not fully sure this is standard for villain.
ft 20bbs eff min 3bet a5o, check back axx flop, min bet river

rec player
bb flat k7s latish 30bbs eff my bu
late game bu vs cu min tarp 3bet 25ishbbs deep and fold to my sb shove (tarp here means he 3bet fairly committed to me then folded anyways)


Last edited by JodaB. on Thu Aug 08, 2013 3:06 am; edited 1 time in total
avatar
JodaB.

Posts : 1327
Likes : 93
Join date : 2012-12-29

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Notes..........

Post  RWPKRPLR1 on Thu Aug 08, 2013 2:58 am

Killer post!!!! And article for me to read. I will read it tomorrow thx

RWPKRPLR1

Posts : 882
Likes : 22
Join date : 2013-01-14
Location : Ontario

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Notes..........

Post  RWPKRPLR1 on Sun Aug 11, 2013 6:15 pm

I read the article and thought it was great. I Have few questions about PT4auto.

1. Have you customized your PT4 auto notes?
2. Do you think it's just as effective to customize your auto notes as it is to take the note itself?
3. if you have customized your auto note library what sort of notes did u add?

I know not all notes can be tracked by a program, but I'm really feeling like most can.

These may be silly questions but I want to start being a little more efficient

P. S. like u told me, i moved back to playing 1-2 tables to focus on opponents and notes

RWPKRPLR1

Posts : 882
Likes : 22
Join date : 2013-01-14
Location : Ontario

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Notes..........

Post  JodaB. on Sun Aug 11, 2013 6:57 pm

RWPKRPLR1 wrote:I read the article and thought it was great. I Have few questions about PT4auto.

1. Have you customized your PT4 auto notes?
2. Do you think it's just as effective to customize your auto notes as it is to take the note itself?
3. if you have customized your auto note library what sort of notes did u add?

I know not all notes can be tracked by a program, but I'm really feeling like most can.

These may be silly questions but I want to start being a little more efficient

P. S. like u told me, i moved back to playing 1-2 tables to focus on opponents and notes
i don't know pt4, take your own notes.
avatar
JodaB.

Posts : 1327
Likes : 93
Join date : 2012-12-29

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Notes..........

Post  RWPKRPLR1 on Sun Aug 11, 2013 9:42 pm

Ok will do

RWPKRPLR1

Posts : 882
Likes : 22
Join date : 2013-01-14
Location : Ontario

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Notes..........

Post  RWPKRPLR1 on Sat Sep 07, 2013 10:59 pm

I will be working on notes tomorrow. Joda will you be on tomorrow if I have any questions?

I'm going to expand what notes to take, how I'm going to write them in short form, What they mean, and how I may exploit them.

Mainly going to document my notes system for review in the future. so if i go stagnant with notes while working on other things, I can refresh myself. Also it helps me to remember things if I document them.

If I get time after I will start studying flop play and 3 bet strategies


Last edited by RWPKRPLR1 on Sun Sep 08, 2013 11:03 am; edited 1 time in total

RWPKRPLR1

Posts : 882
Likes : 22
Join date : 2013-01-14
Location : Ontario

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Notes..........

Post  JodaB. on Sat Sep 07, 2013 11:14 pm

The best way to build on this skill is to find hands in which you took a note on the villain and post it. Then we can look at whether its a good note and how we would exploit the villain with an actual example. I fear you are tending towards creating another system Wink

The other thing is to go over hands with me and talk about mistakes we see and how to note them and how to exploit them.

I'll be around grinding mostly.
avatar
JodaB.

Posts : 1327
Likes : 93
Join date : 2012-12-29

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Notes..........

Post  RWPKRPLR1 on Sun Sep 08, 2013 11:20 am

JodaB. wrote:The best way to build on this skill is to find hands in which you took a note on the villain and post it.  Then we can look at whether its a good note and how we would exploit the villain with an actual example.  I fear you are tending towards creating another system Wink

The other thing is to go over hands with me and talk about mistakes we see and how to note them and how to exploit them.

I'll be around grinding mostly.
wasn't really looking to make a set system, rather than Optimize and Expand what i know now.

I will play a few games, and post hands I created notes for. there will be some dumb ones for sure. These notes will primarily for preflop and some flop hands.

RWPKRPLR1

Posts : 882
Likes : 22
Join date : 2013-01-14
Location : Ontario

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Notes..........

Post  RWPKRPLR1 on Sun Sep 08, 2013 2:45 pm

How the hell do write notes for everyone while multi tabling? I have trouble keeping up with one table, I miss so much!!! do make notes after a game is done?

Here is one hand, very basic

PokerStars Hand #103843426367: Tournament #785420273, $2.28+$0.22 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level IV (50/100) - 2013/09/08 13:47:03 ET
Table '785420273 8' 9-max Seat #6 is the button
Seat 1: Parodeb (1385 in chips)
Seat 2: ryan1111 (1810 in chips)
Seat 3: jiran22 (1300 in chips)
Seat 4: luis7478 (2380 in chips)
Seat 5: g13sakis (1480 in chips)
Seat 6: husling u (1370 in chips)
Seat 7: piszczek (1630 in chips)
Seat 8: TheUnlimiteD (2557 in chips)
Seat 9: Godjka (1385 in chips)
piszczek: posts small blind 50
TheUnlimiteD: posts big blind 100
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to ryan1111 [9h Jh]
Godjka: folds
Parodeb: calls 100
ryan1111: folds
jiran22: raises 1200 to 1300 and is all-in
luis7478: folds
g13sakis: folds
husling u: folds
piszczek: folds
TheUnlimiteD: folds
Parodeb: calls 1200
*** FLOP *** [3d 8d Jc]
*** TURN *** [3d 8d Jc] [3c]
*** RIVER *** [3d 8d Jc 3c] [2d]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Parodeb: shows [Kd Ks] (two pair, Kings and Threes)
(note: L/C UTG 1 KK VS MP 13BB AI)
(Limp called)
jiran22: shows [7c 7s] (two pair, Sevens and Threes)
Parodeb collected 2750 from pot
jiran22 finished the tournament in 148th place


RWPKRPLR1

Posts : 882
Likes : 22
Join date : 2013-01-14
Location : Ontario

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Notes..........

Post  Smoker.B. on Sun Sep 08, 2013 2:50 pm

RWPKRPLR1 wrote:How the hell do write notes for everyone while multi tabling? I have trouble keeping up with one table, I miss so much!!! do make notes after a game is done?

Here is one hand, very basic

PokerStars Hand #103843426367: Tournament #785420273, $2.28+$0.22 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level IV (50/100) - 2013/09/08 13:47:03 ET
Table '785420273 8' 9-max Seat #6 is the button
Seat 1: Parodeb (1385 in chips)
Seat 2: ryan1111 (1810 in chips)
Seat 3: jiran22 (1300 in chips)
Seat 4: luis7478 (2380 in chips)
Seat 5: g13sakis (1480 in chips)
Seat 6: husling u (1370 in chips)
Seat 7: piszczek (1630 in chips)
Seat 8: TheUnlimiteD (2557 in chips)
Seat 9: Godjka (1385 in chips)
piszczek: posts small blind 50
TheUnlimiteD: posts big blind 100
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to ryan1111 [9h Jh]
Godjka: folds
Parodeb: calls 100
ryan1111: folds
jiran22: raises 1200 to 1300 and is all-in
luis7478: folds
g13sakis: folds
husling u: folds
piszczek: folds
TheUnlimiteD: folds
Parodeb: calls 1200
*** FLOP *** [3d 8d Jc]
*** TURN *** [3d 8d Jc] [3c]
*** RIVER *** [3d 8d Jc 3c] [2d]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Parodeb: shows [Kd Ks] (two pair, Kings and Threes)
(note: L/C UTG 1 KK VS MP 13BB AI)
(Limp called)
jiran22: shows [7c 7s] (two pair, Sevens and Threes)
Parodeb collected 2750 from pot
jiran22 finished the tournament in 148th place

"limps big hands and is a retard" would be my note
avatar
Smoker.B.

Posts : 586
Likes : 23
Join date : 2013-01-14

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Notes..........

Post  RWPKRPLR1 on Sun Sep 08, 2013 2:56 pm

LMFAO :)he def has my worst tag
so how would you exploit him?

I would tighten up my calling/shoving  range when he limps and Open up a bit when he open shoves.

should i  be mostly focused on regs for notes?


edit: deleted not


Last edited by RWPKRPLR1 on Sun Sep 08, 2013 3:07 pm; edited 2 times in total

RWPKRPLR1

Posts : 882
Likes : 22
Join date : 2013-01-14
Location : Ontario

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Notes..........

Post  Smoker.B. on Sun Sep 08, 2013 3:05 pm

RWPKRPLR1 wrote:LMFAO :)he def has my worst tag
so how would you exploit him?

I would tighten up my calling/shoving  range when he limps and Open up a bit when he open shoves.

should i not be mostly focused on regs for notes?

limpers are fucked because you cant necessarily 3b them to iso confidently unless we have top 5% of hands

ill let nick answer this because no doubt whatever i think is wrong to him Mad

regs yes, but even randoms are important too

2 dollar regs are tough, because the good ones will move up to 3r's and 8's

id note and label every single one u can!
avatar
Smoker.B.

Posts : 586
Likes : 23
Join date : 2013-01-14

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Notes..........

Post  RWPKRPLR1 on Sun Sep 08, 2013 3:12 pm

Thx

I label pretty much everyone i see, but there is sooooo much bad play going on in 2's that i can take a note(s) every hand and i cant keep up while one tabling lol Shocked 

RWPKRPLR1

Posts : 882
Likes : 22
Join date : 2013-01-14
Location : Ontario

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Notes..........

Post  JodaB. on Sun Sep 08, 2013 3:13 pm

Smoker.B. wrote:
limpers are fucked because you cant necessarily 3b them to iso confidently unless we have top 5% of hands

ill let nick answer this because no doubt whatever i think is wrong to him Mad

regs yes, but even randoms are important too

2 dollar regs are tough, because the good ones will move up to 3r's and 8's

id note and label every single one u can!
alfred is coming soon so I would suggest you finish the home game thread before you get locked up in another preflop thread.
avatar
JodaB.

Posts : 1327
Likes : 93
Join date : 2012-12-29

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Notes..........

Post  JodaB. on Sun Sep 08, 2013 3:17 pm

note: ep no antes ol/call 12bbs KK

Thats 'open limp'

exploit: Villain doesn't have KK or AA in his range when he raises pre in this spot.

I'd take a note on my grandmother if I felt I could exploit her on the felt (does that answer it?).
avatar
JodaB.

Posts : 1327
Likes : 93
Join date : 2012-12-29

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Notes..........

Post  RWPKRPLR1 on Sun Sep 08, 2013 3:31 pm

JodaB. wrote:note: ep no antes ol/call 12bbs KK

Thats 'open limp'

exploit: Villain doesn't have KK or AA in his range when he raises pre in this spot.
ya that helps immensely..

ok then we see this, how does this affect our note?

PokerStars Hand #103844217308: Tournament #785420273, $2.28+$0.22 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level VI (100/200) - 2013/09/08 14:02:56 ET
Table '785420273 8' 9-max Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: Parodeb (840 in chips)
Seat 2: ryan1111 (1435 in chips)
Seat 3: LeNaber (1620 in chips)
Seat 4: luis7478 (2750 in chips)
Seat 6: husling u (2615 in chips)
Seat 7: piszczek (3940 in chips)
Seat 8: TheUnlimiteD (2482 in chips)
Seat 9: Godjka (1010 in chips)
husling u: posts small blind 100
piszczek: posts big blind 200
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to ryan1111 [8s Ac]
TheUnlimiteD: folds
Godjka: folds
Parodeb: calls 200
ryan1111: folds
LeNaber: folds
luis7478: folds
husling u: folds
piszczek: checks
*** FLOP *** [5h 8c 6c]
piszczek: bets 200
Parodeb is disconnected
Parodeb is connected
Parodeb: raises 440 to 640 and is all-in
piszczek: calls 440
*** TURN *** [5h 8c 6c] [7h]
*** RIVER *** [5h 8c 6c 7h] [Th]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
piszczek: shows [Kc Jh] (high card King)
Parodeb: shows [6s Js] (a pair of Sixes)
Parodeb collected 1780 from pot

JodaB. wrote:
I'd take a note on my grandmother if I felt I could exploit her on the felt (does that answer it?).
yes lol

RWPKRPLR1

Posts : 882
Likes : 22
Join date : 2013-01-14
Location : Ontario

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Notes..........

Post  Smoker.B. on Sun Sep 08, 2013 3:31 pm

JodaB. wrote:
Smoker.B. wrote:
limpers are fucked because you cant necessarily 3b them to iso confidently unless we have top 5% of hands

ill let nick answer this because no doubt whatever i think is wrong to him Mad

regs yes, but even randoms are important too

2 dollar regs are tough, because the good ones will move up to 3r's and 8's

id note and label every single one u can!
alfred is coming soon so I would suggest you finish the home game thread before you get locked up in another preflop thread.
tell alfred to stay away !! affraid 
avatar
Smoker.B.

Posts : 586
Likes : 23
Join date : 2013-01-14

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Notes..........

Post  JodaB. on Sun Sep 08, 2013 3:49 pm

[quote="RWPKRPLR1"]
JodaB. wrote:
ok then we see this, how does this affect our note?
ep/mp 4bbs o/l a8o

or whatever it is

no reason to note the flop since its std. that he stacked tp.

seems they are limping everything if same opponent.

clearly we can assume they have no idea about shove poker.
avatar
JodaB.

Posts : 1327
Likes : 93
Join date : 2012-12-29

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Notes..........

Post  Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Page 1 of 4 1, 2, 3, 4  Next

View previous topic View next topic Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum