BU/CO Opens W/Antes

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BU/CO Opens W/Antes

Post  RWPKRPLR1 on Tue Sep 10, 2013 3:23 am

Each game I'm going to post my BTN/CO hands that aren't opened before me.I want make sure I'm opening correctly. Pls correct me where I am wrong.

PokerStars Hand #103916163730: Tournament #786121696, $2.28+$0.22 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level IX (200/400) - 2013/09/10 2:40:52 ET
Table '786121696 2' 9-max Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: akkula666 (6505 in chips)
Seat 2: ryan1111 (5609 in chips)
Seat 3: gibble777 (2115 in chips)
Seat 4: fakkusss (6429 in chips)
Seat 5: komis1958 (7747 in chips)
Seat 8: laarmond (3095 in chips)
Seat 9: erickpapusko (6232 in chips)
akkula666: posts the ante 50
ryan1111: posts the ante 50
gibble777: posts the ante 50
fakkusss: posts the ante 50
komis1958: posts the ante 50
laarmond: posts the ante 50
erickpapusko: posts the ante 50
gibble777: posts small blind 200
fakkusss: posts big blind 400
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to ryan1111 [5d Jc]
komis1958: folds
laarmond: folds
erickpapusko: folds
akkula666: folds
ryan1111: raises 400 to 800
gibble777: folds
fakkusss: raises 5579 to 6379 and is all-in
ryan1111: folds
Uncalled bet (5579) returned to fakkusss
fakkusss collected 2150 from pot

PokerStars Hand #103916170248: Tournament #786121696, $2.28+$0.22 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level IX (200/400) - 2013/09/10 2:41:20 ET
Table '786121696 2' 9-max Seat #3 is the button
Seat 1: akkula666 (6455 in chips)
Seat 2: ryan1111 (4759 in chips)
Seat 3: gibble777 (1865 in chips)
Seat 4: fakkusss (7729 in chips)
Seat 5: komis1958 (7697 in chips)
Seat 6: galo247 (977 in chips)
Seat 7: Orvad (8132 in chips)
Seat 8: laarmond (3045 in chips)
Seat 9: erickpapusko (6182 in chips)
akkula666: posts the ante 50
ryan1111: posts the ante 50
gibble777: posts the ante 50
fakkusss: posts the ante 50
komis1958: posts the ante 50
galo247: posts the ante 50
Orvad: posts the ante 50
laarmond: posts the ante 50
erickpapusko: posts the ante 50
fakkusss: posts small blind 200
komis1958: posts big blind 400
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to ryan1111 [Kh 3d]
galo247: folds
Orvad: folds
laarmond: folds
erickpapusko: folds
akkula666: folds
ryan1111: raises 400 to 800
gibble777: folds
fakkusss: folds
komis1958: raises 6847 to 7647 and is all-in
ryan1111: folds
Uncalled bet (6847) returned to komis1958
komis1958 collected 2250 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 2250 | Rake 0

PokerStars Hand #103916107096: Tournament #786121696, $2.28+$0.22 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level VIII (150/300) - 2013/09/10 2:36:52 ET
Table '786121696 2' 9-max Seat #3 is the button
Seat 1: akkula666 (7355 in chips)
Seat 2: ryan1111 (4409 in chips)
Seat 3: gibble777 (3365 in chips)
Seat 4: fakkusss (6329 in chips)
Seat 5: komis1958 (5900 in chips)
Seat 7: jucardozo (2257 in chips)
Seat 8: laarmond (1910 in chips)
Seat 9: erickpapusko (4010 in chips)
akkula666: posts the ante 25
ryan1111: posts the ante 25
gibble777: posts the ante 25
fakkusss: posts the ante 25
komis1958: posts the ante 25
jucardozo: posts the ante 25
laarmond: posts the ante 25
erickpapusko: posts the ante 25
fakkusss: posts small blind 150
komis1958: posts big blind 300
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to ryan1111 [2h Ad]
jucardozo: folds
laarmond: folds
erickpapusko: folds
akkula666: folds
ryan1111: raises 300 to 600
gibble777: folds
fakkusss: calls 450
komis1958: folds
*** FLOP *** [8d 4c Th]
fakkusss: checks
ryan1111: bets 600
fakkusss: folds
Uncalled bet (600) returned to ryan1111
ryan1111 collected 1700 from pot
ryan1111: doesn't show hand
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 1700 | Rake 0
Board [8d 4c Th]

PokerStars Hand #103916247613: Tournament #786121696, $2.28+$0.22 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level X (300/600) - 2013/09/10 2:46:45 ET
Table '786121696 2' 9-max Seat #3 is the button
Seat 1: akkula666 (5355 in chips)
Seat 2: ryan1111 (2659 in chips)
Seat 3: M.draudE (8375 in chips)
Seat 4: fakkusss (10373 in chips)
Seat 5: komis1958 (8547 in chips)
Seat 6: galo247 (2781 in chips)
Seat 7: Orvad (10427 in chips)
Seat 8: Vilas9 (7583 in chips)
Seat 9: erickpapusko (9262 in chips)
akkula666: posts the ante 50
ryan1111: posts the ante 50
M.draudE: posts the ante 50
fakkusss: posts the ante 50
komis1958: posts the ante 50
galo247: posts the ante 50
Orvad: posts the ante 50
Vilas9: posts the ante 50
erickpapusko: posts the ante 50
fakkusss: posts small blind 300
komis1958: posts big blind 600
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to ryan1111 [2c 9c]
galo247: folds
Orvad: folds
Vilas9: folds
erickpapusko: folds
akkula666: folds
ryan1111: folds
M.draudE: raises 900 to 1500
fakkusss: folds
komis1958: folds
Uncalled bet (900) returned to M.draudE
M.draudE collected 1950 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 1950 | Rake 0

PokerStars Hand #103916298375: Tournament #786121696, $2.28+$0.22 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level XI (400/800) - 2013/09/10 2:50:20 ET
Table '786121696 2' 9-max Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: akkula666 (4421 in chips)
Seat 2: ryan1111 (4743 in chips)
Seat 3: M.draudE (5069 in chips)
Seat 4: fakkusss (9598 in chips)
Seat 6: galo247 (9212 in chips)
Seat 8: Vilas9 (6208 in chips)
Seat 9: erickpapusko (7787 in chips)
akkula666: posts the ante 75
ryan1111: posts the ante 75
M.draudE: posts the ante 75
fakkusss: posts the ante 75
galo247: posts the ante 75
Vilas9: posts the ante 75
erickpapusko: posts the ante 75
M.draudE: posts small blind 400
fakkusss: posts big blind 800
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to ryan1111 [7h Ad]
galo247: folds
Vilas9: folds
erickpapusko: folds
akkula666: folds
ryan1111: raises 3868 to 4668 and is all-in
M.draudE: folds
fakkusss: folds
Uncalled bet (3868) returned to ryan1111
ryan1111 collected 2525 from pot
ryan1111: doesn't show hand
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 2525 | Rake 0

PokerStars Hand #103916301865: Tournament #786121696, $2.28+$0.22 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level XI (400/800) - 2013/09/10 2:50:35 ET
Table '786121696 2' 9-max Seat #3 is the button
Seat 1: akkula666 (4346 in chips)
Seat 2: ryan1111 (6393 in chips)
Seat 3: M.draudE (4594 in chips)
Seat 4: fakkusss (8723 in chips)
Seat 6: galo247 (9137 in chips)
Seat 8: Vilas9 (6133 in chips)
Seat 9: erickpapusko (7712 in chips)
akkula666: posts the ante 75
ryan1111: posts the ante 75
M.draudE: posts the ante 75
fakkusss: posts the ante 75
galo247: posts the ante 75
Vilas9: posts the ante 75
erickpapusko: posts the ante 75
fakkusss: posts small blind 400
galo247: posts big blind 800
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to ryan1111 [6s 3d]
Vilas9: folds
erickpapusko: folds
akkula666: folds
ryan1111: folds
M.draudE: folds
fakkusss: folds
Uncalled bet (400) returned to galo247
galo247 collected 1325 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 1325 | Rake 0

PokerStars Hand #103916338105: Tournament #786121696, $2.28+$0.22 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level XI (400/800) - 2013/09/10 2:53:06 ET
Table '786121696 2' 9-max Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: akkula666 (10992 in chips)
Seat 2: ryan1111 (4743 in chips)
Seat 3: M.draudE (2223 in chips)
Seat 4: fakkusss (9598 in chips)
Seat 5: K1mb026 (2705 in chips)
Seat 8: Vilas9 (4483 in chips)
Seat 9: erickpapusko (7862 in chips)
akkula666: posts the ante 75
ryan1111: posts the ante 75
M.draudE: posts the ante 75
fakkusss: posts the ante 75
K1mb026: posts the ante 75
Vilas9: posts the ante 75
erickpapusko: posts the ante 75
M.draudE: posts small blind 400
fakkusss: posts big blind 800
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to ryan1111 [8s 8d]
K1mb026: folds
Vilas9: folds
erickpapusko: folds
akkula666: folds
ryan1111: raises 3868 to 4668 and is all-in
M.draudE: folds
fakkusss: calls 3868
*** FLOP *** [2h Kc As]
*** TURN *** [2h Kc As] [2d]
*** RIVER *** [2h Kc As 2d] [6h]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
fakkusss: shows [Td Tc] (two pair, Tens and Deuces)
ryan1111: shows [8s 8d] (two pair, Eights and Deuces)
fakkusss collected 10261 from pot
ryan1111 finished the tournament in 29th place
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 10261 | Rake 0
Board [2h Kc As 2d 6h]

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Re: BU/CO Opens W/Antes

Post  JodaB. on Tue Sep 10, 2013 11:45 am

All your strat will be in TAG for quite some time.

I don't mean it to be tag, but I mean standard good poker. The untag is for stuff that no one accepts is correct, but stuff i think is correct and am using to push the boundaries Wink

Anyways, anytime a min raise is profitable but your stack is too short to min/fold, then you should shove, because you could min call anyways.
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Re: BU/CO Opens W/Antes

Post  RWPKRPLR1 on Tue Sep 10, 2013 2:25 pm

I know you break the laws, but what should be my min stack size for min folding? i used to use 16bb as my min.

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Re: BU/CO Opens W/Antes

Post  JodaB. on Tue Sep 10, 2013 4:31 pm

RWPKRPLR1 wrote:I know you break the laws, but what should be my min stack size for min folding? i used to use 16bb as my min.
Well I think its not that I break the laws, I think I don't really believe in having them.

Cause then it causes you to ask questions like what stack size should we min fold from Wink

I'll min fold >2bbs if im not getting the odds to call in a certain spot.

always depends on the spot, thats why rules can be not a good idea because we follow the rule and forget to look at the spot.

but if I had to answer I would around 10bbs we will usually be shoving and not min opening.
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Re: BU/CO Opens W/Antes

Post  RWPKRPLR1 on Thu Sep 12, 2013 1:50 am

OK I have to admit, I'm confused now. During our last session review, you said on the BTN & CO I should just open hands with blockers, then consider whether to call a 3bet shove & if i get called CBET every flop. So this is what I was showing in these hands.




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Re: BU/CO Opens W/Antes

Post  JodaB. on Thu Sep 12, 2013 3:35 am

RWPKRPLR1 wrote:OK I have to admit, I'm confused now. During our last session review, you said on the BTN & CO I should just open hands with blockers, then consider whether to call a 3bet shove & if i get called CBET every flop. So this is what I was showing in these hands.



you can open most buttons, sometime i just mention btw you have blockers. Your not confused, its just you can shove a few hands you folded thats all.
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Re: BU/CO Opens W/Antes

Post  RWPKRPLR1 on Fri Sep 13, 2013 3:05 am

first off can u pls move this to TAG

OK I can see I should of shoved the k3 hand, but I dont see how the 63 and 92 hands are profitable shoves. nash says theyre not un exploitable even when I adjust my opponents ranges. are they profitable because our opponents are not calling 24% ranges here?

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Re: BU/CO Opens W/Antes

Post  JodaB. on Fri Sep 13, 2013 11:41 am

RWPKRPLR1 wrote:first off can u pls move this to TAG

OK I can see I should of shoved the k3 hand, but I dont see how the 63 and 92 hands are profitable shoves. nash says theyre not un exploitable even when I adjust my opponents ranges. are they profitable because our opponents are not calling 24% ranges here?
anytime a min raise is profitable but your stack is too short to min/fold, then you should shove, because you could min call anyways.
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Re: BU/CO Opens W/Antes

Post  RWPKRPLR1 on Sat Sep 14, 2013 3:07 am

so those two hands are shoves as well!?! this means I got a ton to work on here. I will be busy all day Saturday(today), but Sunday i will be grinding and working on this all day, will post more then.

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Re: BU/CO Opens W/Antes

Post  JodaB. on Sat Sep 14, 2013 1:37 pm

RWPKRPLR1 wrote:so those two hands are shoves as well!?!
I think so ja!
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Re: BU/CO Opens W/Antes

Post  RWPKRPLR1 on Sat Sep 21, 2013 1:30 am

OK I have to admit shoving atc <10bb btn/co seems to be killing me. i will post more in on sunday. question about all this: if i pass up on a opportunity, will that skew how profitable the series of plays will be or even make it unprofitable?





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Re: BU/CO Opens W/Antes

Post  JodaB. on Sat Sep 21, 2013 12:36 pm

RWPKRPLR1 wrote:OK I have to admit shoving atc <10bb btn/co seems to be killing me. i will post more in on sunday. question about all this: if i pass up on a opportunity, will that skew how profitable the series of  plays will be or even make it unprofitable?




It only kills you if they show up super light. If you pass up on some of the most profitable spots in the game, ya its gonna show up in your winrate.
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Re: BU/CO Opens W/Antes

Post  RWPKRPLR1 on Sat Sep 21, 2013 5:30 pm

JodaB. wrote:
RWPKRPLR1 wrote:OK I have to admit shoving atc <10bb btn/co seems to be killing me. i will post more in on sunday. question about all this: if i pass up on a opportunity, will that skew how profitable the series of  plays will be or even make it unprofitable?




It only kills you if they show up super light.  If you pass up on some of the most profitable spots in the game, ya its gonna show up in your winrate.  
So how large of a range would be consider a super light range? Also against unknowns, how do we ever know that they're going to call super light?

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Re: BU/CO Opens W/Antes

Post  JodaB. on Sat Sep 21, 2013 6:34 pm

RWPKRPLR1 wrote:
So how large of a range would be consider a super light range?
Wide enough for the nash calculator to tell you to start tightening up.

Also against unknowns, how do we ever know that they're going to call super light?  
We don't, but once they call super light they are no longer unknowns and we know have the info we need. You can't make an assumption without a read, thankfully neither can phil ivey. Hope that makes sense, its kinda important as a fundamental. You can only do what you can based on the info you have, given the same info, even the best can only read what can be read.
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Re: BU/CO Opens W/Antes

Post  RWPKRPLR1 on Sat Sep 21, 2013 7:15 pm

Ya that's great if I do fold my Btn  or co  I will explain why

I think I mis interpreted u when u first told me how to play these positions

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Re: BU/CO Opens W/Antes

Post  RWPKRPLR1 on Sun Sep 22, 2013 12:57 pm

PokerStars Hand #104481577228: Tournament #791942565, $2.28+$0.22 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level IX (200/400) - 2013/09/22 12:54:31 ET
Table '791942565 18' 9-max Seat #7 is the button
Seat 1: 26sk8er (5774 in chips)
Seat 2: Fr334k (4080 in chips)
Seat 3: philmoiss (6257 in chips)
Seat 4: thiesje1 (5292 in chips)
Seat 5: haf79 (2490 in chips)
Seat 6: KUBI$cz (7523 in chips)
Seat 7: ryan1111 (4825 in chips)
Seat 9: c0nscience (5505 in chips)
26sk8er: posts the ante 50
Fr334k: posts the ante 50
philmoiss: posts the ante 50
thiesje1: posts the ante 50
haf79: posts the ante 50
KUBI$cz: posts the ante 50
ryan1111: posts the ante 50
c0nscience: posts the ante 50
c0nscience: posts small blind 200
26sk8er: posts big blind 400
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to ryan1111 [Ts 3d]
Fr334k: folds
philmoiss: folds
thiesje1: folds
haf79: folds
KUBI$cz: folds
ryan1111: raises 400 to 800
c0nscience: raises 4655 to 5455 and is all-in
26sk8er: folds
ryan1111: folds
Uncalled bet (4655) returned to c0nscience
c0nscience collected 2400 from pot
c0nscience: doesn't show hand

this two guys are decent regs, we do this all day?

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Re: BU/CO Opens W/Antes

Post  RWPKRPLR1 on Sun Sep 22, 2013 1:13 pm

PokerStars Hand #104481793304: Tournament #791942565, $2.28+$0.22 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level IX (200/400) - 2013/09/22 13:00:46 ET
Table '791942565 18' 9-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: 26sk8er (5074 in chips)
Seat 2: Fr334k (3580 in chips)
Seat 3: philmoiss (6157 in chips)
Seat 4: thiesje1 (5192 in chips)
Seat 5: manuelacv (2035 in chips)
Seat 6: KUBI$cz (17818 in chips)
Seat 7: ryan1111 (3925 in chips)
26sk8er: posts the ante 50
Fr334k: posts the ante 50
philmoiss: posts the ante 50
thiesje1: posts the ante 50
manuelacv: posts the ante 50
KUBI$cz: posts the ante 50
ryan1111: posts the ante 50
Fr334k: posts small blind 200
philmoiss: posts big blind 400
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to ryan1111 [5h Kd]
thiesje1: folds
manuelacv: folds
Fr334k is disconnected
KUBI$cz has timed out
KUBI$cz: folds
KUBI$cz is sitting out
ryan1111: raises 3475 to 3875 and is all-in
KUBI$cz has returned
26sk8er: folds
Fr334k has timed out while disconnected
Fr334k: folds
Fr334k is sitting out
philmoiss: folds
Uncalled bet (3475) returned to ryan1111
ryan1111 collected 1350 from pot
ryan1111: doesn't show hand

opponents: good reg/random/below avg rec

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Re: BU/CO Opens W/Antes

Post  JodaB. on Sun Sep 22, 2013 2:08 pm

yup fine, especially if you notice the deep antes
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Re: BU/CO Opens W/Antes

Post  RWPKRPLR1 on Sun Sep 22, 2013 2:13 pm

Hmm deep antes. no I did not, I alway think of it as just a ante nothing more nothing less unless we have less players at the table.! And that's only because there is less ante money to steal

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Re: BU/CO Opens W/Antes

Post  JodaB. on Sun Sep 22, 2013 2:29 pm

RWPKRPLR1 wrote:Hmm deep antes. no I did not, I alway  think of it as just a ante nothing more nothing  less unless we have less players at the table.! And that's only because there is less ante money to steal
thtats because you don't know the bat ratio.

Ignore the number of players, ignore the size of the antes.

Look at the total antes compared to the big blind.

Play tighter when the bat ratio is lower, and play looser when the bat ratio is higher.

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Re: BU/CO Opens W/Antes

Post  RWPKRPLR1 on Sun Sep 22, 2013 2:47 pm

afro that follows suit with everything you have told me to date! i like it

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Re: BU/CO Opens W/Antes

Post  JodaB. on Sun Sep 22, 2013 2:54 pm

RWPKRPLR1 wrote:afro that follows suit with everything you have told me to date! i like it
the bat ratio will one day take over harrington's m ratio as it is superior since it give a more correct variable and you don't even need to know how many players there are.

It'll just take a awhile to catch on because it breaks through the conditioning all players have.
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Re: BU/CO Opens W/Antes

Post  RWPKRPLR1 on Sun Sep 22, 2013 3:19 pm

the ratio is going to smaller when there less player as that the table, but your suggesting to play tighter??

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Re: BU/CO Opens W/Antes

Post  JodaB. on Sun Sep 22, 2013 3:26 pm

RWPKRPLR1 wrote:the ratio is going to smaller when there less player as that the table, but your suggesting to play tighter??
yes because there are less antes in the pot right?
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Re: BU/CO Opens W/Antes

Post  RWPKRPLR1 on Sun Sep 22, 2013 3:50 pm

yes thats it

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Re: BU/CO Opens W/Antes

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