bet sizing thoughts

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bet sizing thoughts

Post  RWPKRPLR1 on Fri Jan 03, 2014 2:50 am

PokerStars - $3+$0.30|100/200 Ante 25 NL - Holdem - 9 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 11,170
SB: 6,340
BB: 12,044
UTG: 6,095
UTG+1: 2,910
UTG+2: 4,490
MP: 5,135
MP+1: 1,560
Hero (CO): 15,190

9 players post ante of 25, SB posts SB 100, BB posts BB 200

Pre Flop: (pot: 525) Hero has  K:spade: K:club:

fold, fold, fold, fold, MP+1 raises to 400, [color=red]Hero raises to ???

whats my best bet sizing option here?

a) small, call or iso if shorty shoves
b) bet his total stack
c) over bet his stack
d) all in

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Re: bet sizing thoughts

Post  JodaB. on Fri Jan 03, 2014 9:55 am

lets start by taking shove out of the option Wink
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Re: bet sizing thoughts

Post  RWPKRPLR1 on Sat Jan 04, 2014 2:18 am

JodaB. wrote:lets start by taking shove out of the option Wink

Bahaha threw that in for jokes..

after some review (A) we possibly cost ourself money (B) we lose equity if we get a overcaller, so i think (c) is the best option.. i think a bet of 2750ish covers all angles..

The reason I posted this hand is because I wasn't sure if I wanted another player in the pot, but then found out side pot could help..

how would u play it?

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Re: bet sizing thoughts

Post  JodaB. on Sat Jan 04, 2014 12:21 pm

super villain dependent obv.

vs regs or agressive players behind I might flat and just play it like I opened.

But that said if we click it up a bet, it makes players left to act make a bigger mistake and really starts to inflate the pot.

Ideally we want to bump it up as much as we can that will still allow the players left to act to hang as much chips as they can.

People think that trapping is a good idea with mini raises or flats but when you don't get value or have much fold equity sometimes your just getting zero value pre, and they check fold flops they don't hit, and check shove anything that beats AA.

So it would still be a winning play, but you can really sell yourself short and leave yourself wondering why you (not you but whomever) always seem to lose chips when you get it in here.

So if we can get more chips in vs a wide range pre then we should raise big. Sometimes its better to trap. Sometimes its best to make a std. 3bet.
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Re: bet sizing thoughts

Post  RWPKRPLR1 on Sun Jan 05, 2014 12:39 pm

JodaB. wrote:super villain dependent obv.  

vs regs or agressive players behind I might flat and just play it like I opened.

But that said if we click it up a bet, it makes players left to act make a bigger mistake and really starts to inflate the pot.

Ideally we want to bump it up as much as we can that will still allow the players left to act to hang as much chips as they can.

right on, when I was looking at different scenario's, I actually thought of the flat as the best play for an aggro game , didn't post it for some reason.. Very Happy 


JodaB. wrote:So it would still be a winning play, but you can really sell yourself short and leave yourself wondering why you (not you but whomever) always seem to lose chips when you get it in here.

Any play here is def. profitable, just some have obv. consequences post.(such as letting in to many opponents)

JodaB. wrote:So if we can get more chips in vs a wide range pre then we should raise big.  Sometimes its better to trap.  Sometimes its best to make a std. 3bet.

sweet deal, I like it!!

Part 2-postflop

PokerStars - $3+$0.30|100/200 Ante 25 NL - Holdem - 9 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 11,170
SB: 6,340
BB: 12,044
UTG: 6,095
UTG+1: 2,910
UTG+2: 4,490
MP: 5,135
MP+1: 1,560
Hero (CO): 15,190

9 players post ante of 25, SB posts SB 100, BB posts BB 200

Pre Flop: (pot: 525) Hero has  K:spade: K:club:

fold, fold, fold, fold, MP+1 raises to 400, Hero raises to 880, fold, fold, BB calls 680, MP+1 calls 480

Flop: (2,965, 3 players)  9❤ 6:spade: 7:diamond:
BB checks, MP+1 bets 200, Hero raises to 1,900, BB calls 1,900, MP+1 calls 455 and is all-in

Turn: (7,420, 3 players)  2:diamond:
BB checks, Hero checks

River: (7,420, 3 players)  2:spade:
BB bets 3,200, Hero calls 3,200

BB shows  9:spade: 9:diamond:  (Full House, Nines full of Twos) (Pre 18%, Flop 75%, Turn 86%)
MP+1 mucks  A❤ 5❤  (One Pair, Twos) (Pre 30%, Flop 16%, Turn 10%)
Hero mucks  K:spade: K:club:  (Two Pair, Kings and Twos) (Pre 53%, Flop 8%, Turn 5%)
BB wins 13,820

Really just curious if we can pay off this bet?
Really the only thing he could have is a monster.. I cant add air here, since hes going to SD no matter what. Also there is no extra money to steal. and well I think he checks all marginal hands.

edit: he could bet some of marginal hands thinking he can get me off my hand and still beat the shorty. I dont think there is much tho

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Re: bet sizing thoughts

Post  JodaB. on Sun Jan 05, 2014 1:11 pm

I might go a little smaller on the flop, make them feel uncomfortable playing such a small flop with such a drawy board. Basically try to induce.

Why are we checking turn?
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Re: bet sizing thoughts

Post  RWPKRPLR1 on Sun Jan 05, 2014 3:56 pm

JodaB. wrote:I might go a little smaller on the flop, make them feel uncomfortable playing such a small flop with such a drawy board. Basically try to induce.

Why are we checking turn?

usually once its a ALLin situation i check it down, but i guess i could found out some more info by betting the turn.

does this make sense or is it rubish? if we bet the turn, we eliminate draws, leaving us to only face a bet that screams monster.

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Re: bet sizing thoughts

Post  JodaB. on Sun Jan 05, 2014 4:01 pm

RWPKRPLR1 wrote:
usually once its a ALLin situation i check it down, but i guess i could found out some more info by betting the turn.

does this make sense or is it rubish? if we bet the turn, we eliminate draws, leaving us to only face a bet that screams monster.
This seems out of your character....
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Re: bet sizing thoughts

Post  RWPKRPLR1 on Sun Jan 05, 2014 4:01 pm

edit: why?

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Re: bet sizing thoughts

Post  JodaB. on Sun Jan 05, 2014 4:58 pm

RWPKRPLR1 wrote:edit: why?
I read your other post as: im not betting turn because I don't want to bet for value and i want to give my opponents draws a free card.

Or am i reading the hh wrong?
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Re: bet sizing thoughts

Post  RWPKRPLR1 on Sun Jan 05, 2014 8:11 pm

lol nope you read it right!!

actually what my edit said before was : because i played it fishey lol

This is perfect, we found another leak of mine Very Happy

how much would you bet on the turn? Im thinking like 3k-3.75k.

so in the long run i am costing myself money by not betting the turn, right?

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Re: bet sizing thoughts

Post  JodaB. on Sun Jan 05, 2014 8:15 pm

RWPKRPLR1 wrote:lol nope you read it right!!

actually what my edit said before was : because i played it fishey lol

This is perfect, we found another leak of mine Very Happy

how much would you bet on the turn? Im thinking like 3k-3.75k.

so in the long run i am costing myself money by not betting the turn, right?
i'd prob bet flop small (if we think we can induce) and bet the turn a little bigger and basically expect a fold.

How do we make money in poker?

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Re: bet sizing thoughts

Post  RWPKRPLR1 on Sun Jan 05, 2014 8:23 pm

lol get worst hands to call when have it & get better hands to fold when we're bluffing

edit: you line makes sense. if i play it like u say, my river decision doesn't exist lol still have lots gaps in may game.  Very Happy 

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Re: bet sizing thoughts

Post  JodaB. on Mon Jan 06, 2014 12:56 am

[quote="RWPKRPLR1"]lol get worst hands to call when have it /quote]no just this. value betting fish is really the name of the game, I think we can get tons of value still on the turn, and we should charge the draw.

So i think the shorty threw you off, and as a default just play as if he doesn't exist (can even flat shorty as if you min raised pre).


As for checking it down, omk! if i ever check down a pot with a shorty in it you can be rest assured I have zero equity vs the shorty or I am trapping you because I don't give other players free rivers or free showdowns if I can reasonable help it.

But ya you are on the ever lasting hunt for value if its there and I'm thinking here we can value bet the turn, I still like a little smaller on the flop to try and induce. The trick is flushes will call the flop thinking they are getting x 4 to see the river but if you bet the turn big and you know you are betting turn then they unknowingly make a mistake.

I would prob check back most d turns if i have Kd, and maybe consider betting most other turns. things like that.

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Re: bet sizing thoughts

Post  JodaB. on Mon Jan 06, 2014 12:57 am

RWPKRPLR1 wrote:lol get worst hands to call when have it /quote]no just this.  value betting fish is really the name of the game, I think we can get tons of value still on the turn, and we should charge the draw.

So i think the shorty threw you off, and as a default just play as if he doesn't exist (can even flat shorty as if you min raised pre).


As for checking it down, omk! if i ever check down a pot with a shorty in it you can be rest assured I have zero equity vs the shorty or I am trapping you because I don't give other players free rivers or free showdowns if I can reasonable help it.

But ya you are on the ever lasting hunt for value if its there and I'm thinking here we can value bet the turn, I still like a little smaller on the flop to try and induce.  The trick is flushes will call the flop thinking they are getting x 4 to see the river but if you bet the turn big and you know you are betting turn then they unknowingly make a mistake.

I would prob check back most d turns if i have Kd, and maybe consider betting most other turns.  things like that.

Also I can be wrong so sometimes you have to challenge me on things.
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Re: bet sizing thoughts

Post  RWPKRPLR1 on Tue Jan 07, 2014 4:24 pm

ya it was the shorty that confused me... and deal, when the time is right I will challenge u, i only stand to gain from it! Wink 

thx  again #ontotthenexthand

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Re: bet sizing thoughts

Post  JodaB. on Tue Jan 07, 2014 5:22 pm

RWPKRPLR1 wrote:when the time is right I will challenge u, i only stand to gain from it! Wink 


Interesting...I was more just saying you can disagree here and there.  rabbit 
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