river spot

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river spot

Post  RWPKRPLR1 on Mon Feb 17, 2014 5:07 pm

His Image: Seems Decent ---> 40 hands 25/23 7.0Af
My Image: A fighter (in alot of pots mixing it up)

PokerStars - $4+$0.40|30/60 NL (4 max) - Holdem - 3 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 2,600
SB: 3,900
Hero (BB): 6,302

SB posts SB 30, Hero posts BB 60

Pre Flop: (pot: 90) Hero has  A:club: 6:diamond:

fold, SB raises to 120, Hero calls 60

Flop: (240, 2 players)  6:heart: 9:club: K:spade:
SB bets 120, Hero calls 120

Turn: (480, 2 players)  3:diamond:
SB bets 240, Hero calls 240

River: (960, 2 players)  2:club:
SB bets 480, Hero??

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Re: river spot

Post  sngking on Mon Feb 17, 2014 5:26 pm

This is why you don't get involved with aggressive players with a6 off. Wink 

But the 2 changes nothing and by you calling all the way so far you think you are ahead so I think it's a sigh call. Smile 

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Re: river spot

Post  JodaB. on Mon Feb 17, 2014 6:08 pm

id almost consider a 3bet just because its barely good enough for a call.  But if their range is too tight to call then its tough to suggest we can 3bet air without reads.  So ill try and lean one way with any reads I can find.

Our image here is zero because we only have 40 hands with villain and they are likely not paying attention.

If flatting pre, i almost like a raise on the flop.  We can get better pairs to fold, and we have some outs if called by better.  We also protect our hand vs bw type hands this way.

I guess the lesson is just because there is a king out, don't forget to do our job on all streets.  I think its a great idea to not snap fold here, but just because we have a weak hand doesn't mean we don't still have some work to do Wink (by work i mean hand reading, betting, and thinking bluffing protecting etc.
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Re: river spot

Post  JodaB. on Mon Feb 17, 2014 6:11 pm

sngking wrote:This is why you don't get involved with aggressive players with a6 off. Wink 

But the 2 changes nothing and by you calling all the way so far you think you are ahead so I think it's a sigh call. Smile 
Well we might feel though that half the time villain bets turn they bet river, and half the time they bet turn they check the river...

So then we can still call the turn but fold to the river.

I'm thinking this is a spot where villain can still be reasonably light and air heavy on the turn, but they usually don't fire a 3rd barrel so we can maybe call turn and fold river.

Just remember we don't have to call the river if we call the turn. I often see people say that on forums like PFC but we need to remember its not true. Its just a mythish statement that has caught on.

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Re: river spot

Post  RWPKRPLR1 on Mon Feb 17, 2014 8:42 pm

JodaB. wrote:id almost consider a 3bet just because its barely good enough for a call.  But if their range is too tight to call then its tough to suggest we can 3bet air without reads.  So ill try and lean one way with any reads I can find.

Our image here is zero because we only have 40 hands with villain and they are likely not paying attention.

If flatting pre, i almost like a raise on the flop.  We can get better pairs to fold, and we have some outs if called by better.  We also protect our hand vs bw type hands this way.

I guess the lesson is just because there is a king out, don't forget to do our job on all streets.  I think its a great idea to not snap fold here, but just because we have a weak hand doesn't mean we don't still have some work to do Wink (by work i mean hand reading, betting, and thinking bluffing protecting etc.


I like that line way better, I often forget when floating with these hands, the turn can smash their range!

I also like 3betting the river better than calling.. If he is truly a good plr like, i think calling makes us exploitable in the future.  

In game i was thinking his sizing was a sign of weakness, but thinking about it after, that is clearly not the case.  

Currently working on my post vigorously, so expect to see a lot post mistakes posted on here.

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Re: river spot

Post  REEBS77 on Tue Feb 18, 2014 12:54 pm

JodaB. wrote: Well we might feel though that half the time villain bets turn they bet river, and half the time they bet turn they check the river...

So then we can still call the turn but fold to the river.


This was my thoughts at first, however we only need to be right 1/3 times if we call.  I think its prob close, but i like folding the river.  From villians perspective, we called flop and turn, and river didnt change anything, so we should be calling again (no draws out there for us really other than gutters?)

JodaB. wrote: I'm thinking this is a spot where villain can still be reasonably light and air heavy on the turn, but they usually don't fire a 3rd barrel so we can maybe call turn and fold river.

Just remember we don't have to call the river if we call the turn.  I often see people say that on forums like PFC but we need to remember its not true.  Its just a mythish statement that has caught on.


YES YES YES!  Gawd PFC (facepalm)!!!
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Re: river spot

Post  sngking on Tue Feb 18, 2014 1:20 pm

LOL,ah yes the online poker lingo, but I really do sigh and call sometimes and other times I fold. Raising the flop I do sometimes and just call sometimes, depends on the mood I am in. Razz 

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Re: river spot

Post  RWPKRPLR1 on Tue Feb 18, 2014 4:33 pm

REEBS77 wrote:


This was my thoughts at first, however we only need to be right 1/3 times if we call.  I think its prob close, but i like folding the river.  From villians perspective, we called flop and turn, and river didnt change anything, so we should be calling again (no draws out there for us really other than gutters?)


Ok calling is obv. the worst option here, so that leaves us with to viable options. Both are good, but one has to make us more than the other in the long run.

If we fold, we let opponent continue to bet his air this way, which makes us some monies.

Now if we 3 bet him, and he calls. next time we 3 bet him in such a way, he may spew 4bet or call with worse, making us even more monies than the folding line.

and also if we 3bet him, he could just have air and fold.

But joda is right the real mistake is made on the flop


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Re: river spot

Post  JodaB. on Tue Feb 18, 2014 4:51 pm

raising the river only makes sense if we think k high will fold (it won't). other wise we think we are being sneaky, but really only worse hands are folding.

Often a hand like under pair won't bet the river anyways.

So calling is prob better than raising since we already beat their air.

I like how you consider bluffing before folding first tho.
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Re: river spot

Post  RWPKRPLR1 on Tue Feb 18, 2014 4:56 pm

JodaB. wrote:raising the river only makes sense if we think A**? high will fold (it won't). other wise we think we are being sneaky, but really only worse hands are folding.

Often a hand like under pair won't bet the river anyways.

So calling is prob better than raising since we already beat their air.

I like how you consider bluffing before folding first tho.



but if we call, he may never bet his air in spots like this.

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Re: river spot

Post  JodaB. on Tue Feb 18, 2014 5:02 pm

RWPKRPLR1 wrote:



but if we call, he may never bet his air in spots like this.
ah you remind me, we aren't going to take a -ev spot for a meta game adjustment almost ever, especially mtts and sngs.

We lost to much to gain to little.

in that same regard, we aren't worried about balancing vs this villains adjustments Wink
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Re: river spot

Post  RWPKRPLR1 on Tue Feb 18, 2014 5:08 pm

JodaB. wrote:
RWPKRPLR1 wrote:



but if we call, he may never bet his air in spots like this.
ah you remind me, we aren't going to take a -ev spot for a meta game adjustment almost ever, especially mtts and sngs.

We lose to much to gain to little. Exclamation  Exclamation  Exclamation  Exclamation  Very Happy  Razz 

in that same regard, we aren't worried about balancing vs this villains adjustments Wink

that makes sense

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Re: river spot

Post  Smoker.B. on Tue Feb 18, 2014 5:29 pm

RWPKRPLR1 wrote:
JodaB. wrote:
RWPKRPLR1 wrote:



but if we call, he may never bet his air in spots like this.
ah you remind me, we aren't going to take a -ev spot for a meta game adjustment almost ever, especially mtts and sngs.

We lose to much to gain to little. Exclamation  Exclamation  Exclamation  Exclamation  Very Happy  Razz 

in that same regard, we aren't worried about balancing vs this villains adjustments Wink


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Re: river spot

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