strategy thoughts / approach to the game

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strategy thoughts / approach to the game

Post  Smoker.B. on Tue Mar 11, 2014 12:15 pm

Everyone tries so damn hard to try and be a good TAG player, and they study, study, study and try and figure out math, but for what?

The game of NL is pretty much solved, there are tiny edges, the game is harder to beat, everyone is alot better.. I genuinely think there is a peak one gets too, and then that's it. You pretty much get worse from then on.

So when we think of all the great players, the really really god top tanked players, why are they so special? well, lets talk about it.

Is it because their math is spot on? because they are nits? because they follow hud stats for decision making?

NO.

great players are great, because they are amazing at switching gears, being unpredictable, being balanced, and adapting. Not because their opening ranges are good, or because they exploit bubbles and ICM, or because they run better than others.

Im encouraging people when they are learning poker, that they try and learn/and play OUTSIDE the box, instead of striving to conform to what they / their coach *THINKS* is optimal poker.

If you only ever play the way you are expected to, you will never get ahead of the curve.. this game is constantly changing, and what you think is good poker, might actually be terrible 2 months from now.

I have more thoughts on this, and will go on, but I wanted to have a little discussion first.

what is OPTIMAL poker to you?
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Re: strategy thoughts / approach to the game

Post  JodaB. on Tue Mar 11, 2014 12:23 pm

Smoker.B. wrote:
I have more thoughts on this, and will go on, but I wanted to have a little discussion first.

what is OPTIMAL poker to you?
no no, go on......
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Re: strategy thoughts / approach to the game

Post  Smoker.B. on Tue Mar 11, 2014 12:35 pm

I can and want to go on, I have lots of thoughts on this subject, as long as im not gonna get flamed / banned / ridiculed. if thats the case, then i wont waste my time.

im not trying to change the way people learn / approach poker per se, I just want to try and shed some light to the bigger picture of poker, because I feel like its being missed by so many people



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Re: strategy thoughts / approach to the game

Post  JodaB. on Tue Mar 11, 2014 12:40 pm

not something you would get banned for. ur used to getting flamed/ridiculed so who cares, its your opinion let people have theirs!!!

Spill it!

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Re: strategy thoughts / approach to the game

Post  REEBS77 on Tue Mar 11, 2014 12:58 pm

How do the really good players learn how to adjust though? Wouldn't it be because they learned all the stuff like math and that, and are now able to properly adjust to what we are trying to do?
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Re: strategy thoughts / approach to the game

Post  Smoker.B. on Tue Mar 11, 2014 1:02 pm

JodaB. wrote:not something you would get banned for. ur used to getting flamed/ridiculed so who cares, its your opinion let people have theirs!!!

Spill it!


u betr unblock me on skype u big jerk !  Razz 

anyways

I have been around this game, and studied it in my own way, every single day for the past ~8 years. Im a unique individual. This year, I took a look at what Im doing with my time, and decided to revamp and change my approach. the results have been ... good.  Surprised 

I always see the same things, people get interested in poker, they get all the software, they post hands on forums.. blah blah blah, they feel like they are learning, but really, all they are doing is getting a general feel for what is "standard" , and the way 99% of people approach the game.

How many times do you see a debate in HH threads over what is correct? most people base the best "line check" on who is giving the advice. someone with scores, plays seriously, and seems knowledgeable MUST be correct!  Mad , and furthermore, if you disagree, or look at things a little differently than the "correct" person, than you are an outcast!  Shocked 

Lets make up this example so that people can maybe understand where im going with all this a bit betr

Everyone think of the world of business. Say you YES YOU, start a new job. You are an employee. You spend all this time trying to learn your job, you get training, and you try as best you can to do a good job. You want to be the best at your job. Sometimes you even get recognition from your peers, and that makes you feel good about yourself. yay.  Rolling Eyes 

But, what about the people that are larger than the job. What about the people in management? what about the CEO's , and the VP's ? The people that have power, and MAKE THE MOST MONEY. How do they get there? Did they work their way up from being an employee of that company? It can happen, but its rare. The people at the top of the business world are there for very specific reasons, and have unique qualifications. Qualifications most/all the employees dont have, nor will ever have.

Now lets transition this example to poker.

99% of players out there are the employees, they might grind out a semi decent living, but I dont know about you, but I want to be the CEO/ VP , and want something more, something bigger.

How do we get there?

Well, we can get into this , im not there myself, not sure if I ever will be, but I sure as hell am going for it.











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Re: strategy thoughts / approach to the game

Post  Smoker.B. on Tue Mar 11, 2014 1:03 pm

REEBS77 wrote:How do the really good players learn how to adjust though?  Wouldn't it be because they learned all the stuff like math and that, and are now able to properly adjust to what we are trying to do?

will get into this later, with my next couple posts.
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Re: strategy thoughts / approach to the game

Post  JodaB. on Tue Mar 11, 2014 1:37 pm

dude you need to put this on two plus two, i swear it will go viral!
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Re: strategy thoughts / approach to the game

Post  Smoker.B. on Tue Mar 11, 2014 1:58 pm

JodaB. wrote:dude you need to put this on two plus two, i swear it will go viral!

ha

im not even into the good stuff yet

 What a Face 
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Re: strategy thoughts / approach to the game

Post  JodaB. on Tue Mar 11, 2014 1:59 pm

sppppilllll!!!!
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Re: strategy thoughts / approach to the game

Post  Smoker.B. on Tue Mar 11, 2014 2:19 pm

JodaB. wrote:sppppilllll!!!!

lol u think im an idiot, so i know ur trolling me anyways  Sad 

might continue later
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Re: strategy thoughts / approach to the game

Post  JodaB. on Tue Mar 11, 2014 2:43 pm

dude i obv don't take you or me seriously too much, neither should you....more H-ery now!
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Re: strategy thoughts / approach to the game

Post  Smoker.B. on Tue Mar 11, 2014 2:56 pm

JodaB. wrote:dude i obv don't take you or me seriously too much, neither should you....more H-ery now!

its not H-ery

just my deep collected thoughts being spewed out

 Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad 

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Re: strategy thoughts / approach to the game

Post  JodaB. on Tue Mar 11, 2014 2:59 pm

moar, might as well get it out, you know you need to!
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Re: strategy thoughts / approach to the game

Post  Smoker.B. on Tue Mar 11, 2014 3:44 pm

msg me l8er on skype if u wanna know more

my add has kicked in and im having a hard time relaying my thoughts

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Re: strategy thoughts / approach to the game

Post  sngking on Tue Mar 11, 2014 6:41 pm

I still don't know what H is,lol.

But I actually think smoker is right on a few things ITT Shocked (What is this world coming too? Razz )

Liking the discussion so far....... Cool 

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Re: strategy thoughts / approach to the game

Post  JodaB. on Wed Mar 12, 2014 12:25 am

Smoker.B. wrote:Everyone tries so damn hard to try and be a good TAG player, and they study, study, study and try and figure out math, but for what?
To be a profitable player in todays game.

The game of NL is pretty much solved,
Actually its not, and even when it is, it will still be profitable because people will still think they don't need to study the game

there are tiny edges,
The edges are not tiny.

the game is harder to beat, everyone is alot better.. I genuinely think there is a peak one gets too, and then that's it. You pretty much get worse from then on.
Unless you continue to study, learn, expand, and grow. But first one has to start this process, and that comes from a certain kind of mindset.

So when we think of all the great players, the really really god top tanked players, why are they so special? well, lets talk about it.
They are great because they have great fundamentals, and great fundamentals natural breed great creative growth.

Is it because their math is spot on? because they are nits? because they follow hud stats for decision making?

NO.
Yes.


great players are great, because they are amazing at switching gears, being unpredictable, being balanced, and adapting.
Yes all these things.

Not because their opening ranges are good, or because they exploit bubbles and ICM,
Yes of course its because of these things.

or because they run better than others.
Of course its not this, do you know what run good means?

Im encouraging people when they are learning poker, that they try and learn/and play OUTSIDE the box, instead of striving to conform to what they / their coach *THINKS* is optimal poker.
Ok what could you possibly mean by *THINKS* lol. A good coach already has a proven track record, experience, and a vast knowledge of the inner details of the true workings of the game. The know optimal poker more than most, and better than most. Playing 'outside' the box is really an H word for clicking buttons. And yes we can click buttons and win pots and tell ourselves we are good. We can tell ourselves poker is not a math game, and we can just tilt when we get 'bad beats' from playing poorly (not optimal).

If you only ever play the way you are expected to, you will never get ahead of the curve..
If you don't learn the fundamentals of the game you will constantly lose money and never admit it.

this game is constantly changing, and what you think is good poker, might actually be terrible 2 months from now.
Ah but thats why we concentrate on fundamentals, because they NEVER change. But rest a sured to months from now what is optimal today will be optimal then.


what is OPTIMAL poker to you?
NO, what is it to YOU, because to me we are trying to be the best we can be, to be the most profitable, and thats not going to come from writing essays about why we shouldn't learn about the game.

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Re: strategy thoughts / approach to the game

Post  JodaB. on Wed Mar 12, 2014 12:48 am

Smoker.B. wrote:

u betr unblock me on skype u big jerk !  Razz 
I honestly only chat with people who study the game. Think of it as two different religions, i spend my time with those that believe hard work and study of the game gets rewarded.


I have been around this game, and studied it in my own way, every single day for the past ~8 years.
Studied in your own way, meaning not studying at all in the way that the word means. Playing poker, and tilting your roll off for eight years, you snapped everytime you played for years. Try studying.

Im a unique individual. This year, I took a look at what Im doing with my time, and decided to revamp and change my approach. the results have been ... good.  Surprised 
Randomly changing your approach doesn't do anything positive, what you need to do is decide to take the game serious and realize there is only one path and one direction to do so.

I always see the same things, people get interested in poker, they get all the software, they post hands on forums.. blah blah blah, they feel like they are learning, but really, all they are doing is getting a general feel for what is "standard" , and the way 99% of people approach the game.
They approach it this way because its proven to be the best. And time and time you have actually watched people no more capable than you become pros and make 100s of thousands if not millions, while you are still refusing to learn the fundamentals.

How many times do you see a debate in HH threads over what is correct? most people base the best "line check" on who is giving the advice. someone with scores, plays seriously, and seems knowledgeable MUST be correct!  Mad , and furthermore, if you disagree, or look at things a little differently than the "correct" person, than you are an outcast!  Shocked 
Ya someone with scores, plays seriously, and seems knowledgeable is very likely to be correct, Ducy? And obv if you disagree you are going to get told you are wrong, and yes we know you have had a bad forum experience trying to argue points vs players that have actually studied the game and don't just know the key words.

Lets make up this example so that people can maybe understand where im going with all this a bit betr
you are clearly just stating you refuse to study or take the game serious or grow.

Everyone think of the world of business. Say you YES YOU, start a new job. You are an employee. You spend all this time trying to learn your job, you get training, and you try as best you can to do a good job. You want to be the best at your job. Sometimes you even get recognition from your peers, and that makes you feel good about yourself. yay.  Rolling Eyes 
This is a very good idea for you.

But, what about the people that are larger than the job. What about the people in management? what about the CEO's , and the VP's ? The people that have power, and MAKE THE MOST MONEY. How do they get there? Did they work their way up from being an employee of that company? It can happen, but its rare. The people at the top of the business world are there for very specific reasons, and have unique qualifications. Qualifications most/all the employees dont have, nor will ever have.
Is this your problem you think top managers and ceo's got there by clicking buttons and doing random outside of the box things? I think you should know these people are prob of the hardest working, and the most experience, and its because they worked their way up the ladder they get to the place they are.



99% of players out there are the employees, they might grind out a semi decent living, but I dont know about you, but I want to be the CEO/ VP , and want something more, something bigger.
Well then of course you need to work harder and start learning about the game.

How do we get there?
By realizing poker is a game of skill.

Well, we can get into this , im not there myself, not sure if I ever will be, but I sure as hell am going for it.

No you are not going for it, you are denying the very path that is 'going for it'. Declaring on a forum "i am going for it" is not going for it, winning 100,000 dollars is not going for it, going for it means studying until we are profitable enough to live off.








[/quote]
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Re: strategy thoughts / approach to the game

Post  REEBS77 on Wed Mar 12, 2014 6:09 am

Basketball 

Shouldn't this thread be in the non tag strat forum?

 cheers 
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Re: strategy thoughts / approach to the game

Post  REEBS77 on Wed Mar 12, 2014 7:16 am

sngking wrote:

But I actually think smoker is right on a few things ITT  

You know you have been drinking when you can say this....

Also, "H" is synonymous with "Timbits"
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Re: strategy thoughts / approach to the game

Post  Smoker.B. on Wed Mar 12, 2014 8:29 am

Hahaha , nick, u took everything I said and disagreed

Lol

Keep grinding out those sngs man, you will get somewhere for sure.  Rolling Eyes 

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Re: strategy thoughts / approach to the game

Post  REEBS77 on Wed Mar 12, 2014 8:36 am

Smoker.B. wrote:Hahaha , nick, u took everything I said and disagreed


No he didn't.

Smoker.B. wrote: Lol


Not Funny.

Smoker.B. wrote:Keep grinding out those sngs man, you will get somewhere for sure.  Rolling Eyes 


No, just No.
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Re: strategy thoughts / approach to the game

Post  JodaB. on Wed Mar 12, 2014 9:37 am

Smoker.B. wrote:Hahaha , nick, u took everything I said and disagreed

Lol

Keep grinding out those sngs man, you will get somewhere for sure.  Rolling Eyes 

keep clicking random buttons.
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Re: strategy thoughts / approach to the game

Post  JodaB. on Wed Mar 12, 2014 9:46 am

Naw ur right tho, all these people try to learn about how to play poker, what idiots! Little do they know, you just gotta click buttons. WEEEEEEEE!!!!!!
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Re: strategy thoughts / approach to the game

Post  Smoker.B. on Wed Mar 12, 2014 9:48 am

i didnt say anything about clicking buttons.

my enitre posts were regarding to mental approach to the game.

not the actual execution of playing.
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