strategy thoughts / approach to the game
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strategy thoughts / approach to the game
Everyone tries so damn hard to try and be a good TAG player, and they study, study, study and try and figure out math, but for what?
The game of NL is pretty much solved, there are tiny edges, the game is harder to beat, everyone is alot better.. I genuinely think there is a peak one gets too, and then that's it. You pretty much get worse from then on.
So when we think of all the great players, the really really god top tanked players, why are they so special? well, lets talk about it.
Is it because their math is spot on? because they are nits? because they follow hud stats for decision making?
NO.
great players are great, because they are amazing at switching gears, being unpredictable, being balanced, and adapting. Not because their opening ranges are good, or because they exploit bubbles and ICM, or because they run better than others.
Im encouraging people when they are learning poker, that they try and learn/and play OUTSIDE the box, instead of striving to conform to what they / their coach *THINKS* is optimal poker.
If you only ever play the way you are expected to, you will never get ahead of the curve.. this game is constantly changing, and what you think is good poker, might actually be terrible 2 months from now.
I have more thoughts on this, and will go on, but I wanted to have a little discussion first.
what is OPTIMAL poker to you?
The game of NL is pretty much solved, there are tiny edges, the game is harder to beat, everyone is alot better.. I genuinely think there is a peak one gets too, and then that's it. You pretty much get worse from then on.
So when we think of all the great players, the really really god top tanked players, why are they so special? well, lets talk about it.
Is it because their math is spot on? because they are nits? because they follow hud stats for decision making?
NO.
great players are great, because they are amazing at switching gears, being unpredictable, being balanced, and adapting. Not because their opening ranges are good, or because they exploit bubbles and ICM, or because they run better than others.
Im encouraging people when they are learning poker, that they try and learn/and play OUTSIDE the box, instead of striving to conform to what they / their coach *THINKS* is optimal poker.
If you only ever play the way you are expected to, you will never get ahead of the curve.. this game is constantly changing, and what you think is good poker, might actually be terrible 2 months from now.
I have more thoughts on this, and will go on, but I wanted to have a little discussion first.
what is OPTIMAL poker to you?
Smoker.B.- Posts : 586
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Join date : 2013-01-14
Re: strategy thoughts / approach to the game
no no, go on......Smoker.B. wrote:
I have more thoughts on this, and will go on, but I wanted to have a little discussion first.
what is OPTIMAL poker to you?
JodaB.- Posts : 1327
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Join date : 2012-12-29
Re: strategy thoughts / approach to the game
I can and want to go on, I have lots of thoughts on this subject, as long as im not gonna get flamed / banned / ridiculed. if thats the case, then i wont waste my time.
im not trying to change the way people learn / approach poker per se, I just want to try and shed some light to the bigger picture of poker, because I feel like its being missed by so many people
im not trying to change the way people learn / approach poker per se, I just want to try and shed some light to the bigger picture of poker, because I feel like its being missed by so many people
Smoker.B.- Posts : 586
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Re: strategy thoughts / approach to the game
not something you would get banned for. ur used to getting flamed/ridiculed so who cares, its your opinion let people have theirs!!!
Spill it!
Spill it!
JodaB.- Posts : 1327
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Join date : 2012-12-29
Re: strategy thoughts / approach to the game
How do the really good players learn how to adjust though? Wouldn't it be because they learned all the stuff like math and that, and are now able to properly adjust to what we are trying to do?
REEBS77- Posts : 294
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Join date : 2012-12-30
Re: strategy thoughts / approach to the game
JodaB. wrote:not something you would get banned for. ur used to getting flamed/ridiculed so who cares, its your opinion let people have theirs!!!
Spill it!
u betr unblock me on skype u big jerk !
anyways
I have been around this game, and studied it in my own way, every single day for the past ~8 years. Im a unique individual. This year, I took a look at what Im doing with my time, and decided to revamp and change my approach. the results have been ... good.
I always see the same things, people get interested in poker, they get all the software, they post hands on forums.. blah blah blah, they feel like they are learning, but really, all they are doing is getting a general feel for what is "standard" , and the way 99% of people approach the game.
How many times do you see a debate in HH threads over what is correct? most people base the best "line check" on who is giving the advice. someone with scores, plays seriously, and seems knowledgeable MUST be correct! , and furthermore, if you disagree, or look at things a little differently than the "correct" person, than you are an outcast!
Lets make up this example so that people can maybe understand where im going with all this a bit betr
Everyone think of the world of business. Say you YES YOU, start a new job. You are an employee. You spend all this time trying to learn your job, you get training, and you try as best you can to do a good job. You want to be the best at your job. Sometimes you even get recognition from your peers, and that makes you feel good about yourself. yay.
But, what about the people that are larger than the job. What about the people in management? what about the CEO's , and the VP's ? The people that have power, and MAKE THE MOST MONEY. How do they get there? Did they work their way up from being an employee of that company? It can happen, but its rare. The people at the top of the business world are there for very specific reasons, and have unique qualifications. Qualifications most/all the employees dont have, nor will ever have.
Now lets transition this example to poker.
99% of players out there are the employees, they might grind out a semi decent living, but I dont know about you, but I want to be the CEO/ VP , and want something more, something bigger.
How do we get there?
Well, we can get into this , im not there myself, not sure if I ever will be, but I sure as hell am going for it.
Smoker.B.- Posts : 586
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Join date : 2013-01-14
Re: strategy thoughts / approach to the game
REEBS77 wrote:How do the really good players learn how to adjust though? Wouldn't it be because they learned all the stuff like math and that, and are now able to properly adjust to what we are trying to do?
will get into this later, with my next couple posts.
Smoker.B.- Posts : 586
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Join date : 2013-01-14
Re: strategy thoughts / approach to the game
dude you need to put this on two plus two, i swear it will go viral!
JodaB.- Posts : 1327
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Re: strategy thoughts / approach to the game
JodaB. wrote:dude you need to put this on two plus two, i swear it will go viral!
ha
im not even into the good stuff yet
Smoker.B.- Posts : 586
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Re: strategy thoughts / approach to the game
sppppilllll!!!!
JodaB.- Posts : 1327
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Re: strategy thoughts / approach to the game
JodaB. wrote:sppppilllll!!!!
lol u think im an idiot, so i know ur trolling me anyways
might continue later
Smoker.B.- Posts : 586
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Re: strategy thoughts / approach to the game
dude i obv don't take you or me seriously too much, neither should you....more H-ery now!
JodaB.- Posts : 1327
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Re: strategy thoughts / approach to the game
JodaB. wrote:dude i obv don't take you or me seriously too much, neither should you....more H-ery now!
its not H-ery
just my deep collected thoughts being spewed out
Smoker.B.- Posts : 586
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Re: strategy thoughts / approach to the game
moar, might as well get it out, you know you need to!
JodaB.- Posts : 1327
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Join date : 2012-12-29
Re: strategy thoughts / approach to the game
msg me l8er on skype if u wanna know more
my add has kicked in and im having a hard time relaying my thoughts
my add has kicked in and im having a hard time relaying my thoughts
Smoker.B.- Posts : 586
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Join date : 2013-01-14
Re: strategy thoughts / approach to the game
I still don't know what H is,lol.
But I actually think smoker is right on a few things ITT (What is this world coming too? )
Liking the discussion so far.......
But I actually think smoker is right on a few things ITT (What is this world coming too? )
Liking the discussion so far.......
sngking- Posts : 533
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Join date : 2013-02-09
Age : 46
Re: strategy thoughts / approach to the game
To be a profitable player in todays game.Smoker.B. wrote:Everyone tries so damn hard to try and be a good TAG player, and they study, study, study and try and figure out math, but for what?
Actually its not, and even when it is, it will still be profitable because people will still think they don't need to study the gameThe game of NL is pretty much solved,
The edges are not tiny.
there are tiny edges,
Unless you continue to study, learn, expand, and grow. But first one has to start this process, and that comes from a certain kind of mindset.
the game is harder to beat, everyone is alot better.. I genuinely think there is a peak one gets too, and then that's it. You pretty much get worse from then on.
They are great because they have great fundamentals, and great fundamentals natural breed great creative growth.So when we think of all the great players, the really really god top tanked players, why are they so special? well, lets talk about it.
Yes.Is it because their math is spot on? because they are nits? because they follow hud stats for decision making?
NO.
Yes all these things.
great players are great, because they are amazing at switching gears, being unpredictable, being balanced, and adapting.
Yes of course its because of these things.Not because their opening ranges are good, or because they exploit bubbles and ICM,
Of course its not this, do you know what run good means?or because they run better than others.
Ok what could you possibly mean by *THINKS* lol. A good coach already has a proven track record, experience, and a vast knowledge of the inner details of the true workings of the game. The know optimal poker more than most, and better than most. Playing 'outside' the box is really an H word for clicking buttons. And yes we can click buttons and win pots and tell ourselves we are good. We can tell ourselves poker is not a math game, and we can just tilt when we get 'bad beats' from playing poorly (not optimal).Im encouraging people when they are learning poker, that they try and learn/and play OUTSIDE the box, instead of striving to conform to what they / their coach *THINKS* is optimal poker.
If you don't learn the fundamentals of the game you will constantly lose money and never admit it.If you only ever play the way you are expected to, you will never get ahead of the curve..
Ah but thats why we concentrate on fundamentals, because they NEVER change. But rest a sured to months from now what is optimal today will be optimal then.this game is constantly changing, and what you think is good poker, might actually be terrible 2 months from now.
NO, what is it to YOU, because to me we are trying to be the best we can be, to be the most profitable, and thats not going to come from writing essays about why we shouldn't learn about the game.what is OPTIMAL poker to you?
JodaB.- Posts : 1327
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Join date : 2012-12-29
Re: strategy thoughts / approach to the game
I honestly only chat with people who study the game. Think of it as two different religions, i spend my time with those that believe hard work and study of the game gets rewarded.Smoker.B. wrote:
u betr unblock me on skype u big jerk !
Studied in your own way, meaning not studying at all in the way that the word means. Playing poker, and tilting your roll off for eight years, you snapped everytime you played for years. Try studying.I have been around this game, and studied it in my own way, every single day for the past ~8 years.
Randomly changing your approach doesn't do anything positive, what you need to do is decide to take the game serious and realize there is only one path and one direction to do so.
Im a unique individual. This year, I took a look at what Im doing with my time, and decided to revamp and change my approach. the results have been ... good.
They approach it this way because its proven to be the best. And time and time you have actually watched people no more capable than you become pros and make 100s of thousands if not millions, while you are still refusing to learn the fundamentals.I always see the same things, people get interested in poker, they get all the software, they post hands on forums.. blah blah blah, they feel like they are learning, but really, all they are doing is getting a general feel for what is "standard" , and the way 99% of people approach the game.
Ya someone with scores, plays seriously, and seems knowledgeable is very likely to be correct, Ducy? And obv if you disagree you are going to get told you are wrong, and yes we know you have had a bad forum experience trying to argue points vs players that have actually studied the game and don't just know the key words.
How many times do you see a debate in HH threads over what is correct? most people base the best "line check" on who is giving the advice. someone with scores, plays seriously, and seems knowledgeable MUST be correct! , and furthermore, if you disagree, or look at things a little differently than the "correct" person, than you are an outcast!
you are clearly just stating you refuse to study or take the game serious or grow.
Lets make up this example so that people can maybe understand where im going with all this a bit betr
This is a very good idea for you.
Everyone think of the world of business. Say you YES YOU, start a new job. You are an employee. You spend all this time trying to learn your job, you get training, and you try as best you can to do a good job. You want to be the best at your job. Sometimes you even get recognition from your peers, and that makes you feel good about yourself. yay.
Is this your problem you think top managers and ceo's got there by clicking buttons and doing random outside of the box things? I think you should know these people are prob of the hardest working, and the most experience, and its because they worked their way up the ladder they get to the place they are.But, what about the people that are larger than the job. What about the people in management? what about the CEO's , and the VP's ? The people that have power, and MAKE THE MOST MONEY. How do they get there? Did they work their way up from being an employee of that company? It can happen, but its rare. The people at the top of the business world are there for very specific reasons, and have unique qualifications. Qualifications most/all the employees dont have, nor will ever have.
Well then of course you need to work harder and start learning about the game.99% of players out there are the employees, they might grind out a semi decent living, but I dont know about you, but I want to be the CEO/ VP , and want something more, something bigger.
By realizing poker is a game of skill.How do we get there?
Well, we can get into this , im not there myself, not sure if I ever will be, but I sure as hell am going for it.
No you are not going for it, you are denying the very path that is 'going for it'. Declaring on a forum "i am going for it" is not going for it, winning 100,000 dollars is not going for it, going for it means studying until we are profitable enough to live off.
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JodaB.- Posts : 1327
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Re: strategy thoughts / approach to the game
Shouldn't this thread be in the non tag strat forum?
REEBS77- Posts : 294
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Join date : 2012-12-30
Re: strategy thoughts / approach to the game
sngking wrote:
But I actually think smoker is right on a few things ITT
You know you have been drinking when you can say this....
Also, "H" is synonymous with "Timbits"
REEBS77- Posts : 294
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Join date : 2012-12-30
Re: strategy thoughts / approach to the game
Hahaha , nick, u took everything I said and disagreed
Lol
Keep grinding out those sngs man, you will get somewhere for sure.
Lol
Keep grinding out those sngs man, you will get somewhere for sure.
Smoker.B.- Posts : 586
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Join date : 2013-01-14
Re: strategy thoughts / approach to the game
Smoker.B. wrote:Hahaha , nick, u took everything I said and disagreed
No he didn't.
Smoker.B. wrote: Lol
Not Funny.
Smoker.B. wrote:Keep grinding out those sngs man, you will get somewhere for sure.
No, just No.
REEBS77- Posts : 294
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Re: strategy thoughts / approach to the game
keep clicking random buttons.Smoker.B. wrote:Hahaha , nick, u took everything I said and disagreed
Lol
Keep grinding out those sngs man, you will get somewhere for sure.
JodaB.- Posts : 1327
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Join date : 2012-12-29
Re: strategy thoughts / approach to the game
Naw ur right tho, all these people try to learn about how to play poker, what idiots! Little do they know, you just gotta click buttons. WEEEEEEEE!!!!!!
JodaB.- Posts : 1327
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Re: strategy thoughts / approach to the game
i didnt say anything about clicking buttons.
my enitre posts were regarding to mental approach to the game.
not the actual execution of playing.
my enitre posts were regarding to mental approach to the game.
not the actual execution of playing.
Smoker.B.- Posts : 586
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Join date : 2013-01-14
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