kinda feel like I burnt some $$$, What do you think?

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kinda feel like I burnt some $$$, What do you think?

Post  RWPKRPLR1 on Sun Feb 01, 2015 6:18 pm

Even though I had him crushed, I feel like I should of pot controlled this a bit. Or do we take these in stride?

Itm, 47plrs left, for the chiplead.

PokerStars - $3+$0.30|800/1600 Ante 200 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4: http://www.pokertracker.com

BTN: 37.38 BB (VPIP: 27.72, PFR: 18.00, 3Bet Preflop: 17.24, Hands: 101)
SB: 30.29 BB (VPIP: 6.90, PFR: 5.17, 3Bet Preflop: 8.00, Hands: 58)
BB: 69.98 BB (VPIP: 36.25, PFR: 26.25, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 81)
UTG: 82.85 BB (VPIP: 40.00, PFR: 20.34, 3Bet Preflop: 3.85, Hands: 60)
Hero (MP): 65.35 BB
CO: 32.24 BB (VPIP: 8.33, PFR: 8.33, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 12)

6 players post ante of 0.13 BB, SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 2.25 BB) Hero has Qd Qc
UTG raises to 2 BB, Hero raises to 6 BB, fold, fold, fold, fold, UTG calls 4 BB

Flop : (14.25 BB, 2 players) Tc 4c 6d
UTG checks, Hero bets 7 BB, UTG raises to 16 BB, Hero raises to 59.23 BB and is all-in, UTG calls 43.23 BB

Turn : (132.71 BB, 2 players) Th

River : (132.71 BB, 2 players) 3h

UTG shows Ts 7s (Three of a Kind, Tens)
(Pre 20%, Flop 22%, Turn 95%)

Hero shows Qd Qc (Two Pair, Queens and Tens)
(Pre 80%, Flop 78%, Turn 5%)

UTG wins 132.71 BB

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Re: kinda feel like I burnt some $$$, What do you think?

Post  sngking on Fri Feb 06, 2015 2:12 pm

Probably just take it in stride. Cool

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Re: kinda feel like I burnt some $$$, What do you think?

Post  JodaB. on Sat Mar 28, 2015 3:06 pm

Well we are never going to fold these hands and feel good about, but there are some considerations that might help us gain more ev in the long run.

We should always consider the overall dynamics which includes both what has already happened between us and all the other players (in this tourney and others), but also what "might" happen in the future.

This is why understanding the overall game is helpful before understanding specific aspects of it...since we will learn to be a strong reg that is often lag especially deep in tourney's vs weaker fields, we want to think about showing up with strong hand's in spots that we might steal a lot.

This might be one of those spots where we are going to steal at least some % of time and so we might consider playing queens in an identical way as a hand like JTo, or A5o.  Having such a loose range (polarized because we will flat medium hands probably), is only really possible and ideal if we are three betting a little small on average though.  Here you 3x his min raise, where as we can probably get away with 2.5 or even 2.25/2.2.

This changes the entire dynamic of the hand as villain will often show an exploitable tendency that you can react to in the future such as flatting too wide, playing poor post flop, and/or 4 betting poorly.

Also on a 2nd not, we have made an error on the flop or better said we can play the flop more ideally. When villain x-raises he can still have a lot of air and weak hands...we should definitely consider a smaller or min raise, or a flat (get it in on turn) over a re raise shove.  Its true they can have a flush draw, but they might also have A7o or something silly that will fold to your shove but might repop or continue bluff on the turn.

^^^this last paragraph I would suggest is one of the most important yet often not mastered aspects of understanding "poker".
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Re: kinda feel like I burnt some $$$, What do you think?

Post  RWPKRPLR1 on Sun Mar 29, 2015 10:19 pm

JodaB. wrote:Well we are never going to fold these hands and feel good about, but there are some considerations that might help us gain more ev in the long run.

We should always consider the overall dynamics which includes both what has already happened between us and all the other players (in this tourney and others), but also what "might" happen in the future.

This is why understanding the overall game is helpful before understanding specific aspects of it...since we will learn to be a strong reg that is often lag especially deep in tourney's vs weaker fields, we want to think about showing up with strong hand's in spots that we might steal a lot.

This might be one of those spots where we are going to steal at least some % of time and so we might consider playing queens in an identical way as a hand like JTo, or A5o.  Having such a loose range (polarized because we will flat medium hands probably), is only really possible and ideal if we are three betting a little small on average though.  Here you 3x his min raise, where as we can probably get away with 2.5 or even 2.25/2.2.

Ya 3x'ing here outlines my hand, kinda like playing my hand face up, right!?! and when thinking about what they're thinking about my hand, its clear the there is min/no bluffs in my range.



This changes the entire dynamic of the hand as villain will often show an exploitable tendency that you can react to in the future such as flatting too wide, playing poor post flop, and/or 4 betting poorly.

I def see this now

Also on a 2nd not, we have made an error on the flop or better said we can play the flop more ideally. When villain x-raises he can still have a lot of air and weak hands...we should definitely consider a smaller or min raise, or a flat (get it in on turn) over a re raise shove.  Its true they can have a flush draw, but they might also have A7o or something silly that will fold to your shove but might repop or continue bluff on the turn.

Ya, correct, when you put it like that, I def did the opposite of what i actually should of!!Im scaring away most of the hands i want to call. and thats not poker

^^^this last paragraph I would suggest is one of the most important yet often not mastered aspects of understanding "poker".

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Re: kinda feel like I burnt some $$$, What do you think?

Post  RWPKRPLR1 on Sun Mar 29, 2015 10:26 pm

2.2xing keeps our opponent thinking we could have some bluffs, which can lead them to play exploitably

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Re: kinda feel like I burnt some $$$, What do you think?

Post  JodaB. on Mon Mar 30, 2015 3:14 pm

RWPKRPLR1 wrote:2.2xing keeps our opponent thinking we could have some bluffs, which can lead them to play exploitably
actually it even gets more intricate.  At first these decisions on bet sizes vs our strategy/ranges is confusing, but as we go through about 10 or so different types of situations an entire strategy becomes apparent.

What you point out is true, yet sometimes we change depending on if the players is weak or strong, but we must also consider how we are going to play over our career, in future spots at the table, and vs all the other players at the table (or those that might join).

Who knows what the best strategy is,  but it is likely something that steals in many +ev spots that are available, and so yes we should always be thinking about what our entire range looks like in a given spot... and this helps us determine the types of bet sizing we might choose.
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Re: kinda feel like I burnt some $$$, What do you think?

Post  RWPKRPLR1 on Fri Apr 03, 2015 6:23 pm

JodaB. wrote:
RWPKRPLR1 wrote:2.2xing keeps our opponent thinking we could have some bluffs, which can lead them to play exploitably
actually it even gets more intricate.  At first these decisions on bet sizes vs our strategy/ranges is confusing, but as we go through about 10 or so different types of situations an entire strategy becomes apparent.

What you point out is true, yet sometimes we change depending on if the players is weak or strong, but we must also consider how we are going to play over our career, in future spots at the table, and vs all the other players at the table (or those that might join).

Who knows what the best strategy is,  but it is likely something that steals in many +ev spots that are available, and so yes we should always be thinking about what our entire range looks like in a given spot... and this helps us determine the types of bet sizing we might choose.


Can we go through these 10 or so different strategies, I prob would know what you're talking about if we talked about it (and learn thing or two)..... I'm away from sunday to thursday, so maybe some time after that...

On a side note, I'm going to try to help your Bankroll, you have 10% (after withholdings) of whatever I profit playing tourneys in Vegas(will xfer on stars if i win us monies). Prob Playing a $200 buyin 10k gtd or $125 buyin and a couple of $50-$100 buyins.... withholding start @ 5k so Im not to worried that any of the prizes will get that high.

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Re: kinda feel like I burnt some $$$, What do you think?

Post  RWPKRPLR1 on Wed Apr 08, 2015 11:22 am

Lol 0/3 on the trip

Game 1 @ TI- 26/63 finished mid pack while going for the chiplead. got my nut flush in against the aces full Very Happy

Game 2 @ TI - 11/40 bubbled for the final table. Shoved JTo 10bb, BB woke up with AKo, GG me

Game 3 @ the Venetian - 19/103 TT<AK played way to tight in this one

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Re: kinda feel like I burnt some $$$, What do you think?

Post  JodaB. on Wed Apr 08, 2015 7:21 pm

ahh bah gg's!

prob should have only counted if i was here to claim it and sweat ;p

I'll address the other stuff soon, just saw this and wanted to comment Smile
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Re: kinda feel like I burnt some $$$, What do you think?

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