later game AQ

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later game AQ

Post  Superman on Fri Feb 15, 2013 2:29 am

Villain is platinum...busy, but not out of line...nothing bad shown down, but not a lot shown down either..

Full Tilt Poker Game #32117710512: $6,000 Guarantee (Rebuy) (249244501), Table 9 - 250/500 Ante 50 - No Limit Hold'em - 22:25:12 PT - 2013/02/14 [01:25:12 ET - 2013/02/15]
Seat 1: raapulis (5,652), is sitting out
Seat 3: nightshaderu (11,413)
Seat 4: BosSelD (74,626)
Seat 5: mookymcmookster (19,024)
Seat 6: choueifat (19,274)
Seat 7: massif111 (42,512)
Seat 8: Bcboy72 (20,677)
Seat 9: raisewducks (8,469)
raapulis antes 50
nightshaderu antes 50
BosSelD antes 50
mookymcmookster antes 50
choueifat antes 50
massif111 antes 50
Bcboy72 antes 50
raisewducks antes 50
nightshaderu posts the small blind of 250
BosSelD posts the big blind of 500
The button is in seat #2
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Bcboy72 [Qh Ac]
mookymcmookster folds
choueifat calls 500
massif111 raises to 1,000
Bcboy72 calls 1,000
raisewducks calls 1,000
raapulis folds
nightshaderu calls 750
BosSelD calls 500
choueifat raises to 19,224, and is all in
massif111 folds
Bcboy72 has 15 seconds left to act
raapulis has reconnected
raapulis has returned
Bcboy72 has requested TIME

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Re: later game AQ

Post  JodaB. on Fri Feb 15, 2013 2:44 am

This one is a little tricky for me cause were deep and its not my strongest point, but with an open limp and then a min iso, I think we can 3bet as a bluff (but still for value). Then we can isolate these two from the rest of the field and see a flop in position.

We can fold to any shoves or raises from stacks over 20bbs, and feel decent getting it in vs any stacks lower than that especially with the dead money.

We can turn aq into a bluff here even though its technically to strong to raise/fold, because we get so much value that way vs these bad players (limper and min iso is bad). Where as normally we might flat aq because its too good to raise fold.

I'm prob not calling off my stack for 40bbs with aq but I do know that shakentoucan prob would.
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Re: later game AQ

Post  Superman on Fri Feb 15, 2013 3:00 am

Yeah, I hated my limp to start with..and really didn't want to be that guy to stack off with AQ this late..figured if I could get a cheap flop, and possibly if only one was left in the hand that jammed, I might be able to pull the trigger...as it was, I let it go and he walked..

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Re: later game AQ

Post  JodaB. on Fri Feb 15, 2013 3:03 am

Superman wrote:Yeah, I hated my limp to start with..and really didn't want to be that guy to stack off with AQ this late..figured if I could get a cheap flop, and possibly if only one was left in the hand that jammed, I might be able to pull the trigger...as it was, I let it go and he walked..
Ya see I'll make something up here and I won't do any math to back it (so who knows if its true)....isoing here without seeing our cards and cbetting any flop 2 or 3 ways is going to make us more profit than seeing a flop 4 ways with AQ imo.
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Re: later game AQ

Post  Superman on Fri Feb 15, 2013 3:18 am

YOur first "like"...aren't you special Wink

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Re: later game AQ

Post  REEBS77 on Fri Feb 15, 2013 10:03 am

See what Im not understanding Yoda, is that in the AK/AQ thread you advocate 3 bet gii with 37 bb eff vs utg raiser. Yet here you dont want to gii vs a min iso utg+2 with 40bb? Seems like a very similar spot in terms of villain's range.... no?

Maybe Im missing something?
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Re: later game AQ

Post  Superman on Fri Feb 15, 2013 11:55 am

I htink there are a couple factors here that make this different...First off, it's AQ...not AK in this spot...it's also quite late game, and a bigger buy in. (read-typically better players in the hand) The other thing that I just noticed, for some reason missed the first time (while it was happening)...was that our villain limped, then jammed...I am still trying to process what that tells me...lol

The open limp by a Platinum looks to me like he wants someone to raise him up, buddy helps him out by min opening (maybe not paying attention to the open limp?) which has been happening a lot at our table...a couple more limpers and it's back to the Platinum..now, he either has what he wanted, a bunch of other money in the pot, and jams or he sees an opportunity to steal a bunch with a medium pair type hand..

I think I feel better about my fold (not about the limp)

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Re: later game AQ

Post  JodaB. on Fri Feb 15, 2013 12:50 pm

REEBS77 wrote:See what Im not understanding Yoda, is that in the AK/AQ thread you advocate 3 bet gii with 37 bb eff vs utg raiser. Yet here you dont want to gii vs a min iso utg+2 with 40bb? Seems like a very similar spot in terms of villain's range.... no?

Maybe Im missing something?
becasue here it would be a limp, a raise, a re raise, and a re re raise we would be calling. So if ep limp/shoves thats going to be quite strong. Same with if anyone comes behind us and shoves or goes all in. I think that is a lot more strength then us facing a 4bet from and ep 4x. I'm not against getting aq in here, like i said shakentoucan would i'm guessing.

Also a 3bet vs a 4x with antes is gonig be a lot bigger than a 3bet iso here.

I guess we could also 3bet iso large here to give us good odds to get it in.

Also in the other hand we have the option to flat the good hands that we don't want to.
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Re: later game AQ

Post  REEBS77 on Fri Feb 15, 2013 1:22 pm

JodaB. wrote:becasue here it would be a limp, a raise, a re raise, and a re re raise we would be calling. So if ep limp/shoves thats going to be quite strong. Same with if anyone comes behind us and shoves or goes all in. I think that is a lot more strength then us facing a 4bet from and ep 4x. I'm not against getting aq in here, like i said shakentoucan would i'm guessing.

Also a 3bet vs a 4x with antes is gonig be a lot bigger than a 3bet iso here.

I guess we could also 3bet iso large here to give us good odds to get it in.

Also in the other hand we have the option to flat the good hands that we don't want to.


Is anyone else having issues when you quote posts. The text keeps jumping around on me and makes it impossible to type or see what you are typing.

I understand a limp shove would be really strong but I think this is a bit of monsters under the bed syndrome .... I dunno. Platinum isnt THAT hard to get.... could def be a donk who played some MS cash. We cant go assuming all EP limps are the nuts, can we? Maybe if we had notes that he limps monsters I can see it...

Also, I think that a 4x ep followed by a 4 bet from an unknown is a lot tighter than you guys gave him credit for in the other thread. I highly doubt many are 4x 4 bet gii 37bb deep from UTG with AT/AJ like you suggested. And there are no antes in AQ/AK hand.

if this post makes no sense its not my fault... its the site is tilting me beyond control ....
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Re: later game AQ

Post  JodaB. on Fri Feb 15, 2013 1:51 pm

I didn't quote your post in case that helps but i don't think thats what you meant.

I think these hands are both close so its not exactly cut and dry but theres a few things. In the other hand raiser doesn't have AT often at all (ats maybe), but we can't cut aj out.
Are you suggesting fold to a 4bet?

50.106% { AKo }
49.894% { JJ+, AQs+, AQo+ }


AQo vs a tight range does significantly worse

33.065% { AQo }
66.935% { JJ+, AQs+, AQo+ }


But also in the 4x thread our preantes 3bet is bigger so well raise to 10x or something (I have to see the numbers to see my raise size.

In the o-limp thread we can 3x 3bet or in some cases i'll 2.2 x just to bump all the players out but the two fish. So we get worse pot odds to call as well (well there are antes too).

So its a dirty raise fold. AQ is a great hand, but I don't think we can flat, that makes it a 3bet, if you want to call it off I think that is fine.

Really the optimal line would be to convince btp to get his ass in here. Then we can talk about the cib 3bet that he doesn't want me to tell the world about.
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Re: later game AQ

Post  REEBS77 on Fri Feb 15, 2013 2:02 pm

I think whats tilting me on the site is once you fill the box with text it starts to jump around during typing. Quoting just makes it worse since quotes take up more space.... know what i mean? I just tried without quoting and it does same thing once you fill the box with text.

I dont think Im really suggesting anything yet with regard to either hand, as I feel there are inconsistancies in the answers (or maybe in my own thought process - much more likely) What a Face

I def dont like 3 bet folding AK though. I'd rather flat the first time then 3 bet fold.
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Re: later game AQ

Post  JodaB. on Fri Feb 15, 2013 2:12 pm

REEBS77 wrote:I think whats tilting me on the site is once you fill the box with text it starts to jump around during typing. Quoting just makes it worse since quotes take up more space.... know what i mean? I just tried without quoting and it does same thing once you fill the box with text.

I dont think Im really suggesting anything yet with regard to either hand, as I feel there are inconsistancies in the answers (or maybe in my own thought process - much more likely) What a Face

I def dont like 3 bet folding AK though. I'd rather flat the first time then 3 bet fold.
Are you on a phone? I'll try to sort that out later, might change the site template. As far as inconcistensies, these hands are no where near the same, the only thing that is the same is the stack size.

We shouldn't flat AK if 3betting is more profitable. We are 50/50% to get it in vs a very tight range. the fact that he is never that tight, we have a non zero % of fold equity and he will make mistakes post flop I think thats an auto 3bet/get it in/ get in on flop. If we flat we have position, but semi short, vs a tight range, and we don't have initiative

edit: so what happens when the flop come 256 and villain cbets 2/3 pot?
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Re: later game AQ

Post  REEBS77 on Fri Feb 15, 2013 2:22 pm

No not on phone... at work on desktop.
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Re: later game AQ

Post  JodaB. on Fri Feb 15, 2013 2:27 pm

REEBS77 wrote:No not on phone... at work on desktop.
Browser? wonder if anyone else has this issue?

So do you play both hands different?
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Re: later game AQ

Post  Superman on Fri Feb 15, 2013 2:48 pm

JodaB. wrote:
REEBS77 wrote:No not on phone... at work on desktop.
Browser? wonder if anyone else has this issue?

So do you play both hands different?

I don't have this issue at all? I am on Chrome...

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Re: later game AQ

Post  Superman on Fri Feb 15, 2013 2:50 pm

JodaB. wrote:

So do you play both hands different?

Ak, I get it in, that case (other hand)...with this AQ..I hate my limp because there are too many to follow, and I missed the open limp. Should have 3bet...

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Re: later game AQ

Post  RWPKRPLR1 on Fri Feb 15, 2013 3:00 pm

Firefox and safari on iPhone works fine

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Re: later game AQ

Post  REEBS77 on Fri Feb 15, 2013 3:22 pm

OK let me try from home tonite. Maybe its just my work internet....

Joda I will answer that (if I would play them differently) ... Just thinking about it more cus imo they are both pretty close.
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Re: later game AQ

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