Fast or slowplay turned nuts?

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Fast or slowplay turned nuts?

Post  JodaB. on Thu Jan 31, 2013 3:32 pm

No Limit Holdem Tournament
PokerStars
9 Players
Hand Conversion Powered by http://weaktight.com/
$13.77+$1.23

Stacks:
UTG 1,500 75bb
UTG+1 1,360 68bb
MP1 1,500 75bb
MP2 1,500 75bb
MP3 1,500 75bb
CO 1,500 75bb
Hero (BTN) 1,490 75bb
SB 1,650 83bb
BB 1,500 75bb

Blinds: 10/20

Pre-Flop: (30, 9 players) Hero is BTN Jd Ad
2 folds, MP1 raises to 60, 3 folds, Hero calls 60, 2 folds

Flop: Th Qc 9d (150, 2 players)
MP1 bets 80, Hero calls 80

Turn: Kd (310, 2 players)
MP1 bets 220, Hero ???

Villain is a good super nova reg, (not very good), TAG for sure. Call or Jam and why?
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Re: Fast or slowplay turned nuts?

Post  Smoker.B. on Thu Jan 31, 2013 9:53 pm

I like smooth calling so we can hopefully get another street of value

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Re: Fast or slowplay turned nuts?

Post  JodaB. on Thu Jan 31, 2013 11:05 pm

Smoker.B. wrote:I like smooth calling so we can hopefully get another street of value

what is villains range?

edit: notice how you make your decision before you consider villains range? Range comes first always.
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Re: Fast or slowplay turned nuts?

Post  Smoker.B. on Thu Jan 31, 2013 11:44 pm

ok ive never been good at explaining myself all that well.. as u can probably tell but i will list my thoughts.

You mention that he is a TAGgy reg, so sets are defenitly in his range and so is a J .. these have to be in his range because he continued on the turn.. tough to fire at such a wet board, he defenitly has a piece... since we are nutted its highly unlikely he is.

thats why i like checking over jamming, jamming could make us miss out on value if he folds.

edit** i also really think aces could be in his range, so jamming might be good as well


i fucking suck at this stuff.
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Re: Fast or slowplay turned nuts?

Post  JodaB. on Fri Feb 01, 2013 12:45 am

Smoker.B. wrote:ok ive never been good at explaining myself all that well.. as u can probably tell but i will list my thoughts.
no do not list your thoughts horatio, that is random talk. List his range, and don't talk about random poker terms.


You mention that he is a TAGgy reg, so sets are defenitly in his range and so is a J .. these have to be in his range because he continued on the turn..
Sets? lets hear the hands TT, JJ, QQ, KK etc. list his range, not name a couple hands here and there.
tough to fire at such a wet board, he defenitly has a piece...
here you are just saying nonsense words again.

since we are nutted its highly unlikely he is.
highly unlikey is not a number, to actual talk about how likely a hand is you have know his range first.

thats why i like checking over jamming, jamming could make us miss out on value if he folds.
What is value?

edit** i also really think aces could be in his range, so jamming might be good as well
Of course aces is in his range, why would it not be?


i fucking suck at this stuff.
Thats because as soon as it gets a little tough you bug out, finish the conversation, until you understand.
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Re: Fast or slowplay turned nuts?

Post  Smoker.B. on Fri Feb 01, 2013 12:51 am

sorry man, every thing i post is just wrong
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Re: Fast or slowplay turned nuts?

Post  JodaB. on Fri Feb 01, 2013 1:11 am

Smoker.B. wrote:sorry man, every thing i post is just wrong
the next words you post should be hands that are in his range for sure, hands that might in his range, and hands that you think aren't in his range.

no other words, no apologies, no i suck, no im stupid, just hands.
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Re: Fast or slowplay turned nuts?

Post  REEBS77 on Fri Feb 01, 2013 10:04 am

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Re: Fast or slowplay turned nuts?

Post  AlfreD2 on Fri Feb 01, 2013 1:48 pm

Waiting on a hand range from Costanza.
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Re: Fast or slowplay turned nuts?

Post  REEBS77 on Fri Feb 01, 2013 2:19 pm



Okay so good TAG pre ante MP1 should be opening something close to this IMO:

55+,A8s+,KJs+,QJs,AJo+,KQo

There may be a few extra hands he opens, like the 22-44, maybe some other SC, but I'm going to error on the tighter side for now.

OTF, most regs will be cbetting close to 100% of that range. However, once you flat and he fires a second barrel, I think we can eliminate some of that initial range. Lets say his double barrel range is this:

99+,AJs+,KJs+,QJs,AJo+,KQo

Basically, I removed the small pp's and the bottom/middle pair hands. I kinda find it hard to believe there is any random air in his range here since this card is gin for most of your flop flatting hands, plus considering the opening range we gave him, there really isn't much air to begin with. Also, the 2/3 pot turn bet makes me believe that he really likes his hand, and is likely willing to get it in.

If we shove on the turn, I expect the villain to call with sets, straights, MAYYYBE two pairs - but prob not, so I will take those out too.

KK-99,AJs,KJs,QJs,AJo = 73% equity for AJdd

I think if we call and wait till the river, villian will smell it a mile away. Joda is an agressive cat and villian will know this. Plus it might mindfuck villian into thinking its a great turn card to turn our hand into a bluff.

I cram it in. Make those sets PAY!

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Re: Fast or slowplay turned nuts?

Post  JodaB. on Fri Feb 01, 2013 4:43 pm

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Re: Fast or slowplay turned nuts?

Post  Smoker.B. on Fri Feb 01, 2013 8:46 pm

was out all day doin stuff

not gonna list ranges because they are gonna be wrong, just like everything i type.. i saw reebzy made a nice reply earlier

im done with strat talk because everything i think and the format i explain things is wrong 100% of the time. I will watch you guys and just try and absorb as much as i can.

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Re: Fast or slowplay turned nuts?

Post  JodaB. on Fri Feb 01, 2013 9:08 pm

Smoker.B. wrote:was out all day doin stuff

not gonna list ranges because they are gonna be wrong, just like everything i type.. i saw reebzy made a nice reply earlier

im done with strat talk because everything i think and the format i explain things is wrong 100% of the time. I will watch you guys and just try and absorb as much as i can.

if your next post isn't a hand range your getting temp banned. stop spitting out bullshit, its wrong because you never answer the question. You are afraid of being wrong, you come to talk strat but you leave when you have to actually address it.

Post the hand range so you can learn. Type something else and VICKI's gonna zap you outa here.

Also stop wasting my time, if your gonna discuss strat then do it.
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Re: Fast or slowplay turned nuts?

Post  Smoker.B. on Thu Feb 07, 2013 10:16 pm

ok, this flop fucking SMASHES villians range, but it also smashes ours (fortunately) Razz

Villians range after some consideration includes:

88+ , AJs+, AJo+, QT, Q9, KQ, JT, JQ, KT

pig
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Re: Fast or slowplay turned nuts?

Post  JodaB. on Thu Feb 07, 2013 10:30 pm

Smoker.B. wrote:ok, this flop fucking SMASHES villians range, but it also smashes ours (fortunately) Razz

Villians range after some consideration includes:

88+ , AJs+, AJo+, QT, Q9, KQ, JT, JQ, KT

pig
You are correct this flop smashes his range. I will help you out though, villain is tag which means his vpip/pfr is like 14/12. The range you gave is like 15, but this player plays tighter than 14% utg 2

His range is even tighter than you gave him more like 8-10%

So adjust that range a little and talk about it...
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Re: Fast or slowplay turned nuts?

Post  Smoker.B. on Fri Feb 08, 2013 8:51 pm

JodaB. wrote:
Smoker.B. wrote:ok, this flop fucking SMASHES villians range, but it also smashes ours (fortunately) Razz

Villians range after some consideration includes:

88+ , AJs+, AJo+, QT, Q9, KQ, JT, JQ, KT

pig
You are correct this flop smashes his range. I will help you out though, villain is tag which means his vpip/pfr is like 14/12. The range you gave is like 15, but this player plays tighter than 14% utg 2

His range is even tighter than you gave him more like 8-10%

So adjust that range a little and talk about it...

we can get rid of Q9, and JT prolly

88+ , AJs+, AJo+, QTs, KQos, QJ, KT ish

I love you

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Re: Fast or slowplay turned nuts?

Post  REEBS77 on Fri Feb 08, 2013 9:08 pm

Smoker.B. wrote:
JodaB. wrote:
Smoker.B. wrote:ok, this flop fucking SMASHES villians range, but it also smashes ours (fortunately) Razz

Villians range after some consideration includes:

88+ , AJs+, AJo+, QT, Q9, KQ, JT, JQ, KT

pig
You are correct this flop smashes his range. I will help you out though, villain is tag which means his vpip/pfr is like 14/12. The range you gave is like 15, but this player plays tighter than 14% utg 2

His range is even tighter than you gave him more like 8-10%

So adjust that range a little and talk about it...

we can get rid of Q9, and JT prolly

88+ , AJs+, AJo+, QTs, KQos, QJ, KT ish

I love you


How do you exclude AT but include KT?
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Re: Fast or slowplay turned nuts?

Post  Smoker.B. on Fri Feb 08, 2013 10:22 pm

REEBS77 wrote:
Smoker.B. wrote:
JodaB. wrote:
Smoker.B. wrote:ok, this flop fucking SMASHES villians range, but it also smashes ours (fortunately) Razz

Villians range after some consideration includes:

88+ , AJs+, AJo+, QT, Q9, KQ, JT, JQ, KT

pig
You are correct this flop smashes his range. I will help you out though, villain is tag which means his vpip/pfr is like 14/12. The range you gave is like 15, but this player plays tighter than 14% utg 2

His range is even tighter than you gave him more like 8-10%

So adjust that range a little and talk about it...

we can get rid of Q9, and JT prolly

88+ , AJs+, AJo+, QTs, KQos, QJ, KT ish

I love you


How do you exclude AT but include KT?

notice the ISH Mad
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Re: Fast or slowplay turned nuts?

Post  JodaB. on Sat Feb 09, 2013 2:32 am

Smoker.B. wrote:
REEBS77 wrote:
Smoker.B. wrote:
JodaB. wrote:
Smoker.B. wrote:ok, this flop fucking SMASHES villians range, but it also smashes ours (fortunately) Razz

Villians range after some consideration includes:

88+ , AJs+, AJo+, QT, Q9, KQ, JT, JQ, KT

pig
You are correct this flop smashes his range. I will help you out though, villain is tag which means his vpip/pfr is like 14/12. The range you gave is like 15, but this player plays tighter than 14% utg 2

His range is even tighter than you gave him more like 8-10%

So adjust that range a little and talk about it...

we can get rid of Q9, and JT prolly

88+ , AJs+, AJo+, QTs, KQos, QJ, KT ish

I love you


How do you exclude AT but include KT?

notice the ISH Mad
reebs is correct try not to do that, V always gave me shit for doing that. Anyways talk about the hand now with the new range.
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Re: Fast or slowplay turned nuts?

Post  Smoker.B. on Sat Feb 09, 2013 8:14 pm

ok so

based on villians new range and the board, I think we can profitably get it in with him

cheers
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Re: Fast or slowplay turned nuts?

Post  JodaB. on Sat Feb 09, 2013 8:18 pm

Smoker.B. wrote:ok so

based on villians new range and the board, I think we can profitably get it in with him

cheers
why?
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Re: Fast or slowplay turned nuts?

Post  Smoker.B. on Sat Feb 09, 2013 8:20 pm

JodaB. wrote:
Smoker.B. wrote:ok so

based on villians new range and the board, I think we can profitably get it in with him

cheers
why?

cuz given his range, we can properly assume that he has enough equity given the flop texture and his range to stack off with us

we are nutted so this is what we want! Twisted Evil
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Re: Fast or slowplay turned nuts?

Post  JodaB. on Sat Feb 09, 2013 8:22 pm

Smoker.B. wrote:
JodaB. wrote:
Smoker.B. wrote:ok so

based on villians new range and the board, I think we can profitably get it in with him

cheers
why?

cuz given his range, we can properly assume that he has enough equity given the flop texture and his range to stack off with us

we are nutted so this is what we want! Twisted Evil
but if we see the river we can hit a nut flush? we already have the nuts, should we let villain improve?
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Re: Fast or slowplay turned nuts?

Post  Smoker.B. on Sat Feb 09, 2013 8:25 pm

JodaB. wrote:
Smoker.B. wrote:
JodaB. wrote:
Smoker.B. wrote:ok so

based on villians new range and the board, I think we can profitably get it in with him

cheers
why?

cuz given his range, we can properly assume that he has enough equity given the flop texture and his range to stack off with us

we are nutted so this is what we want! Twisted Evil
but if we see the river we can hit a nut flush? we already have the nuts, should we let villain improve?

problem with seeing riv cheap is that it can bring more scare cards making it less likely for us to get paid off (flush gets there, 4 card straight, etc)
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Re: Fast or slowplay turned nuts?

Post  JodaB. on Sat Feb 09, 2013 8:33 pm

Smoker.B. wrote:
JodaB. wrote:
Smoker.B. wrote:
JodaB. wrote:
Smoker.B. wrote:ok so

based on villians new range and the board, I think we can profitably get it in with him

cheers
why?

cuz given his range, we can properly assume that he has enough equity given the flop texture and his range to stack off with us

we are nutted so this is what we want! Twisted Evil
but if we see the river we can hit a nut flush? we already have the nuts, should we let villain improve?

problem with seeing riv cheap is that it can bring more scare cards making it less likely for us to get paid off (flush gets there, 4 card straight, etc)
true! take each hole card hand villain has already on the turn and categorize it as what type of made hand...
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Re: Fast or slowplay turned nuts?

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