Can I Overcall pre..

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Re: Can I Overcall pre..

Post  Smoker.B. on Wed Jan 08, 2014 12:02 pm

REEBS77 wrote:
Smoker.B. wrote:
REEBS77 wrote:
Smoker.B. wrote:Fold >>>>> 3b >>>>> flat imo

3 Betting does 2 things

Let's us rep a stronger range (obv)

And 2, it forces villains to maybe fold hands that don't flop/play well post  (mid/small pairs, ATo, KJs, shit like that). We want hands stronger than us to fold, so we are 3b bluffing.

KTs does really poorly on any flop we actually connect with  (minus a frush) not to mention it's not the best hand to play hu pots, let alone 3 way

Not really sure 3 bet bluffing is an option.  I kinda think fold>flat>3bet without any reads.  Not getting enough folds out of those small opening/flatting ranges to make the bluff profitable, are we? .... the hands you mentioned above arent even in RWs range that he assigned to the utg opener, and are barely inside the range for the flatter.

We are certainly deep enough, and it doesn't hurt us to fold to a shove , and we don't give them good enough implied odds to set mine .

Did you read my message or just blindly type?

this is why i dont talk strat with u math nits
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Re: Can I Overcall pre..

Post  REEBS77 on Wed Jan 08, 2014 12:12 pm

Smoker.B. wrote:
REEBS77 wrote:
Smoker.B. wrote:
REEBS77 wrote:
Smoker.B. wrote:Fold >>>>> 3b >>>>> flat imo

3 Betting does 2 things

Let's us rep a stronger range (obv)

And 2, it forces villains to maybe fold hands that don't flop/play well post  (mid/small pairs, ATo, KJs, shit like that). We want hands stronger than us to fold, so we are 3b bluffing.

KTs does really poorly on any flop we actually connect with  (minus a frush) not to mention it's not the best hand to play hu pots, let alone 3 way

Not really sure 3 bet bluffing is an option.  I kinda think fold>flat>3bet without any reads.  Not getting enough folds out of those small opening/flatting ranges to make the bluff profitable, are we? .... the hands you mentioned above arent even in RWs range that he assigned to the utg opener, and are barely inside the range for the flatter.

We are certainly deep enough, and it doesn't hurt us to fold to a shove , and we don't give them good enough implied odds to set mine .

Did you read my message or just blindly type?

this is why i dont talk strat with u math nits

No really man, your reply didnt really touch on what I was saying. It has completely different points. No? If what I said has no merit, then just say so. From what I can see, you didnt reply to my message.
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Re: Can I Overcall pre..

Post  Smoker.B. on Wed Jan 08, 2014 12:18 pm

REEBS77 wrote:
Smoker.B. wrote:
REEBS77 wrote:
Smoker.B. wrote:
REEBS77 wrote:
Smoker.B. wrote:Fold >>>>> 3b >>>>> flat imo

3 Betting does 2 things

Let's us rep a stronger range (obv)

And 2, it forces villains to maybe fold hands that don't flop/play well post  (mid/small pairs, ATo, KJs, shit like that). We want hands stronger than us to fold, so we are 3b bluffing.

KTs does really poorly on any flop we actually connect with  (minus a frush) not to mention it's not the best hand to play hu pots, let alone 3 way

Not really sure 3 bet bluffing is an option.  I kinda think fold>flat>3bet without any reads.  Not getting enough folds out of those small opening/flatting ranges to make the bluff profitable, are we? .... the hands you mentioned above arent even in RWs range that he assigned to the utg opener, and are barely inside the range for the flatter.

We are certainly deep enough, and it doesn't hurt us to fold to a shove , and we don't give them good enough implied odds to set mine .

Did you read my message or just blindly type?

this is why i dont talk strat with u math nits

No really man, your reply didnt really touch on what I was saying.  It has completely different points.  No?  If what I said has no merit, then just say so.  From what I can see, you didnt reply to my message.

ok, well I think given stack sizes, im not sure how profitable it is in math sense (i believe this is what u asked) like with an exact number, but i think 3 betting here is not bad for balance. cant always be 3 betting premiums. I mean, we have a King , on the button, against an open and a flat.. the flat might just be a station.

theres alot of variables at play, so obv different lines are optimal.

i was just trying to offer my input on how i think of things as a whole, not just regarding this specific hand. thats all. things to think about.


Last edited by Smoker.B. on Wed Jan 08, 2014 12:18 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : i love you andy FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF :face:)
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Re: Can I Overcall pre..

Post  JodaB. on Wed Jan 08, 2014 1:05 pm

Smoker.B. wrote:
but i think 3 betting here is not bad for balance. cant always be 3 betting premiums.
As general rule only say this vs good players, we don't balance vs fish or randos, and if we are 3betting a utg open then we should have the nuts be default. Balance is not for fish.

I mean, we have a King , on the button, against an open and a flat.. the flat might just be a station.
Yup and 3betting a utg open without reads is suicide.

theres alot of variables at play, so obv different lines are optimal.
Dear H, Optimal means the single best. So there is one optimal line, and not 'obv different lines are optimal. One line is optimal.

i was just trying to offer my input on how i think of things as a whole, not just regarding this specific hand. thats all. things to think about.
yup its fun to contribute and ok to not be exactly right too!
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Re: Can I Overcall pre..

Post  Smoker.B. on Wed Jan 08, 2014 1:38 pm

m hrt!
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Re: Can I Overcall pre..

Post  REEBS77 on Wed Jan 08, 2014 2:03 pm

yeah i think personally 3 betting this spot is bad, but i do think alot of your points for 3 betting are good thoughts.  Just not here.

As for your comment about having a K and bluffing for balance, I think you are on the right track, but betting for balance is only good if villian is a reg and would exploit us for only betting for value, right?  We dont know that about this villain.  If you are speaking in general terms then I think you need to consider this:

Having a K blocker is significantly less important than an A blocker.  In fact, the K blocker is probably acting as a reverse blocker here, as it blocks the few hands that you are trying to get to fold when you bluff.
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Re: Can I Overcall pre..

Post  RWPKRPLR1 on Wed Jan 15, 2014 10:19 pm

Forgot to post HOW FUCKING AWESOME it was to see everyone contributing to the most current thread at the time. Like a Star @ heaven Like a Star @ heaven Like a Star @ heaven Like a Star @ heaven Like a Star @ heaven

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Re: Can I Overcall pre..

Post  REEBS77 on Thu Jan 16, 2014 11:36 am

RWPKRPLR1 wrote:Forgot to post HOW FUCKING AWESOME it was to see everyone contributing to the most current thread at the time. Like a Star @ heaven Like a Star @ heaven Like a Star @ heaven Like a Star @ heaven Like a Star @ heaven

Yes i agree.... if I had more free time, Id be posting a lot more too  What a Face 
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