Good spot to Overbet Jam?

[REEBS77]

*********** # 315 **************
PokerStars Hand #105759576301: Tournament #801477463, $3.00+$0.30 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level XXV (2000/4000) - 2013/10/20 1:23:12 ET
Table '801477463 30' 8-max Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: AsReyJota (107150 in chips)
Seat 2: REEBS77 (233336 in chips)
Seat 3: farlzz (181962 in chips)
Seat 4: Major1896 (138053 in chips)
Seat 5: Yagano555 (64074 in chips)
Seat 6: miss moo 85 (156674 in chips)
Seat 7: FindMiracle (290392 in chips)
Seat 8: samu1605 (175359 in chips)
AsReyJota: posts the ante 500
REEBS77: posts the ante 500
farlzz: posts the ante 500
Major1896: posts the ante 500
Yagano555: posts the ante 500
miss moo 85: posts the ante 500
FindMiracle: posts the ante 500
samu1605: posts the ante 500
farlzz: posts small blind 2000
Major1896: posts big blind 4000
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to REEBS77 [As 5s]
Yagano555: folds
miss moo 85: folds
FindMiracle: raises 4424 to 8424
samu1605: folds
AsReyJota: folds
REEBS77: raises 7576 to 16000
farlzz: folds
Major1896: folds
FindMiracle: calls 7576
*** FLOP *** [5h 8s 6s]
FindMiracle: checks
REEBS77: bets 16000
FindMiracle: raises 24000 to 40000
REEBS77: calls 24000
*** TURN *** [5h 8s 6s] [9s]
FindMiracle: checks
REEBS77: checks
*** RIVER *** [5h 8s 6s 9s] [4c]
FindMiracle: checks
REEBS77: bets 176836 and is all-in

I believe pot was somewhere around $130k-$140k on river.

[REEBS77]

FFS i am really tired this morning I guess. Yoda, my apologies, these threads should all be in the hand analysis, shouldnt they? Pls move them if you wouldnt mind...

[JodaB.]

FFS i am really tired this morning I guess.  Yoda, my apologies, these threads should all be in the hand analysis, shouldnt they?  Pls move them if you wouldnt mind...

I'll find Aldy, he's never around when I'm around tho.

[JodaB.]

I think your 3bet pre is 2x? thats gonna serve to be too small. Also when villain never folds pre (rare here because your 3bet is so small) your 3bet isn't +ev on its own, and you need to make that 2bbs up postflop before you start to profit.

On the river I don't think villain often checks a straight and we want to think about pricing weaker hands in to call anyways.

You can look at different bet sizings that will let different hands in.

But I think you should bet turn because a lot of rivers can kill your action, and its easier to get a bigger river bet in (and called).

One thing to remember, when you 3bet pre (esp with no fold equity), you really gotta get paid when you hit the nuts here.

[REEBS77]

I think your 3bet pre is 2x?  thats gonna serve to be too small.  Also when villain never folds pre (rare here because your 3bet is so small) your 3bet isn't +ev on its own, and you need to make that 2bbs up postflop before you start to profit.

On the river I don't think villain often checks a straight and we want to think about pricing weaker hands in to call anyways.

You can look at different bet sizings that will let different hands in.

But I think you should bet turn because a lot of rivers can kill your action, and its easier to get a bigger river bet in (and called).  

One thing to remember, when you 3bet pre (esp with no fold equity), you really gotta get paid when you hit the nuts here.

I gotta try to not be results oriented with this .... lol

First point is great, I didnt really realize i only 3 bet to 4bb total.  That is def too small.  Typically I try for 5 or 5.5bb sizing.  Is that better?

So turn I like your thinking about betting due to another spade killing my action.  However, this villain in particular was especially bad and prob not thinking about much more than, "ZOMG, the spade came, he must have a flush!"  so I am trying to check to disguise that from him a bit.  I think against better opponents I like your line better.

River, I figured he would I would go for the overbet to make it look super fishy.  Get called by straight, overpairs, two pairs, maybe a top pair hand since my bet looks so retarded.  I really dont agree with you that straights never check.  I dunno.

[JodaB.]

I gotta try to not be results oriented with this .... lol

First point is great, I didnt really realize i only 3 bet to 4bb total.  That is def too small.  Typically I try for 5 or 5.5bb sizing.  Is that better?

you could do 2.5ish even, you need an amount that villain might fold, if villain never folds, then you need a stronger hand pre usually (think about reverse implied odds here if villain flats a5+).

So turn I like your thinking about betting due to another spade killing my action.  However, this villain in particular was especially bad and prob not thinking about much more than, "ZOMG, the spade came, he must have a flush!"  so I am trying to check to disguise that from him a bit.  I think against better opponents I like your line better.

River, I figured he would I would go for the overbet to make it look super fishy.  Get called by straight, overpairs, two pairs, maybe a top pair hand since my bet looks so retarded.  I really dont agree with you that straights never check.  I dunno.

I don't mean to say villain never checks a straight. But given they often lead out (if not out of fear), and a 7x hand is a small part of their range I think you are really selling yourself short with an overbet.

I'm not sure its consistent to suggest villain fears a turn bet but not a river overbet. We don't have to bomb the turn, just massage the pot a little, and villain can still be drawing (although dead).

I also think you are leveling yourself vs a weaker player thinking they will 'read' weakness from an overbet jam.

I think you can break your river bet into two parts, bet turn, and river and get more calls then a river jam.

[REEBS77]

I think you can break your river bet into two parts, bet turn, and river and get more calls then a river jam.

Aight good stuff. I can agree with that I think. In general that is prob best. Guess if he is going to call river overbet, he will def call a tiny turn bet too. Then we also charge his flush draws. K I agree.

Soooo, with that said, do you have any good examples of when a river overbet would be best? I want to play around with it, cus I don't do it all that much and it always seems to tilt ppl.

[JodaB.]

I think you can break your river bet into two parts, bet turn, and river and get more calls then a river jam.

Aight good stuff.  I can agree with that I think.  In general that is prob best.  Guess if he is going to call river overbet, he will def call a tiny turn bet too.  Then we also charge his flush draws.  K I agree.

Soooo, with that said, do you have any good examples of when a river overbet would be best?  I want to play around with it, cus I don't do it all that much and it always seems to tilt ppl.

Not really, vs regs we really have to be able to balance it with air, and its more of a meta thing. Like when a good (but not great) reg overbets its always value because they no its an awful price to bluff with.

Vs. a bad player we might do it when we river the nuts and we read they have a decently strong hand.

but in general we should set up our sizing so the river shove is standard.

[Smoker.B.]

I feel like over betting here is really bad, because we need to get pizz-aidddd

If you are willing to jam nutted hands, you have to be balanced and able/capable to stuff in all of your air as well, and given your style of play reebzy, theres no way anyone is calling here , because you dont spew... u arent a tard like some of us   

id go for value, maybe 1/3 pot or something .. value and it might induce a spew

[Smoker.B.]

ps- id love this jam if you had only the As  

[JodaB.]

If you are willing to jam nutted hands, you have to be balanced and able/capable to stuff in all of your air as well

keep in mind we only really have to balance vs good players that can hand read well.

[RWPKRPLR1]

I think you can break your river bet into two parts, bet turn, and river and get more calls then a river jam.

big fan of this. thx for taking the time to go through these

[REEBS77]

um, I posted one where I triple barrel bluffed today too there smoker.... Just cus I dont 13 bet bluff 52o pre doesnt mean I dont have aggro in me....  

[REEBS77]

Also, villain stacked off JJ here fwiw....

[Smoker.B.]

um, I posted one where I triple barrel bluffed today too there smoker.... Just cus I dont 13 bet bluff 52o pre doesnt mean I dont have aggro in me....  

      

 

  

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