Hand Reading

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Re: Hand Reading

Post  REEBS77 on Tue Mar 19, 2013 3:56 pm

I will take a look at this further tonite, but the main thing I take issue with here is that almost no one is opening (or even limp/calling) the entire deck ... in almost any situation. So certainly we are cutting out some of those hands you selected preflop. Right?

What about the assumptions you make about villians folding too much, and thus making (for instance) a shove atc on btn 9bb deep, profitable? <--- that is cutting out parts of their calling range...
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Re: Hand Reading

Post  JodaB. on Tue Mar 19, 2013 4:01 pm

REEBS77 wrote:I will take a look at this further tonite, but the main thing I take issue with here is that almost no one is opening (or even limp/calling) the entire deck ... in almost any situation. So certainly we are cutting out some of those hands you selected preflop. Right?
No this is what you are asking because you are told poker is about cutting out ranges. If I asked you to make a snap decision without think on each flop could you?


What about the assumptions you make about villians folding too much, and thus making (for instance) a shove atc on btn 9bb deep, profitable? <--- that is cutting out parts of their calling range...
very esoteric question! gimme a bit, im on tables.
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Re: Hand Reading

Post  JodaB. on Tue Mar 19, 2013 4:04 pm

What about the assumptions you make about villians folding too much, and thus making (for instance) a shove atc on btn 9bb deep, profitable? <--- that is cutting out parts of their calling range...
how do we define 'too much' or 'too little'?
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Re: Hand Reading

Post  REEBS77 on Tue Mar 19, 2013 7:47 pm

JodaB. wrote:
What about the assumptions you make about villians folding too much, and thus making (for instance) a shove atc on btn 9bb deep, profitable? <--- that is cutting out parts of their calling range...
how do we define 'too much' or 'too little'?

We define folding too much by assuming villain (or you in my example) is shoving nash, and folding too much would be folding more than nash says to fold.
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Re: Hand Reading

Post  REEBS77 on Tue Mar 19, 2013 7:49 pm

JodaB. wrote:
REEBS77 wrote:I will take a look at this further tonite, but the main thing I take issue with here is that almost no one is opening (or even limp/calling) the entire deck ... in almost any situation. So certainly we are cutting out some of those hands you selected preflop. Right?
No this is what you are asking because you are told poker is about cutting out ranges. If I asked you to make a snap decision without think on each flop could you?


What about the assumptions you make about villians folding too much, and thus making (for instance) a shove atc on btn 9bb deep, profitable? <--- that is cutting out parts of their calling range...
very esoteric question! gimme a bit, im on tables.

If I had to make a snap decision I could, but no promising they would be correct decisions. Wink

I haven't fooled around with nash nearly as much as I would need to in order to make snap correct decisions. Though, I think I could be "close."
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Re: Hand Reading

Post  REEBS77 on Tue Mar 19, 2013 7:52 pm

And Id be interested to know why you included any aces in the last example of hands... Like A6, A7, A8, etc on a 953r flop?
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Re: Hand Reading

Post  JodaB. on Tue Mar 19, 2013 10:30 pm

REEBS77 wrote:

We define folding too much by assuming villain (or you in my example) is shoving nash, and folding too much would be folding more than nash says to fold.
Ya I think that is the equivalent of what I am saying here, if we don't think about nash first before we start chopping up villains range we are going to make mistakes.
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Re: Hand Reading

Post  JodaB. on Tue Mar 19, 2013 10:32 pm

REEBS77 wrote:

If I had to make a snap decision I could, but no promising they would be correct decisions. Wink

I haven't fooled around with nash nearly as much as I would need to in order to make snap correct decisions. Though, I think I could be "close."
Well I'm just saying about the 3 examples, not about nash and shovign (yet). The idea is without even touching villains range we get a pretty good unbiased idea of where we are at. That might seem a little silly, but I think its the best place to start, later if we have to maybe we will cut out some hands for villain but I really think we need a general over unbiased view first.
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Re: Hand Reading

Post  JodaB. on Tue Mar 19, 2013 10:33 pm

REEBS77 wrote:And Id be interested to know why you included any aces in the last example of hands... Like A6, A7, A8, etc on a 953r flop?
because on that flop we only have KQs

So when i asked about making a snap decision in each example I listed our hole cards .
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Re: Hand Reading

Post  RWPKRPLR1 on Wed Mar 20, 2013 4:08 am

This kinda reminds of a video I watched a month ago, take a look..

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Re: Hand Reading

Post  JodaB. on Wed Mar 20, 2013 4:39 am

ill try to take a look i didn't get through the last series yet.
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Re: Hand Reading

Post  RWPKRPLR1 on Fri Feb 28, 2014 6:05 pm

REEBS77 wrote:
JodaB. wrote:I just wanna make sure this video doesn't focus on cutting hands out of peoples ranges.  its going to be different of me to say maybe be we want to look at the deck as a whole and resist the urge to try to cut out parts.  I wonder if that conflicts with the video series, i haven't seen it.

I don't understand how you range a villain if you are not cutting out parts of the deck?  I mean when you state a villain's opening range, you are effectively cutting out parts of the deck.  Large parts usually.  

Its the same concept, only it focuses on post flop.

I will send you the videos tonite on Skype if you want.


I lost these TPE vids on hand reading when I reloaded my comp, can you send me them to me plzzzz. I need to watch these again, they go along with all my post flop work

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Re: Hand Reading

Post  REEBS77 on Fri Feb 28, 2014 6:46 pm

(facepalm) this thread  Basketball 

I don't think the vids are/were downloadable....I think they were on the tpe site and I had a membership at the time. not anymore.
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Re: Hand Reading

Post  RWPKRPLR1 on Fri Feb 28, 2014 6:50 pm

ok no probs.. I will find another series..


all most training sites allow you to download their content.. i was just wondering because itt you said you  would send them to joda

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Re: Hand Reading

Post  AlfreD2 on Sat Mar 01, 2014 6:34 pm

Even though all the way at Dagobaht-Cave we should still avoid public break of TOC's Wink
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Re: Hand Reading

Post  RWPKRPLR1 on Sat Mar 01, 2014 6:36 pm

No probs found it anyway

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Re: Hand Reading

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