BVB shoving and calling

[sngking]

Copied from other thread, to give more info, this guy was actually a tag!, BUT he had a little high steal percentage from sb at like 35%. This was a 27 man and we were at 10 left, top 5 pays so there was still a lil ways to go.

So I was a little confused on what to do.........


***** Hand History for Game 94217806246 ***** (Poker Stars)
Tourney Hand NL Texas Hold'em - Sunday, February 17, 07:07:37 ET 2013
Table 691292633 2 (Real Money)
Seat 1 is the button
Seat 1: Behasnor ( $5450.00 USD )
Seat 2: ju_pokerr ( $3595.00 USD )
Seat 4: PHILLIIVEY1 ( $1665.00 USD )
Seat 8: Jukarz ( $1400.00 USD )
Seat 9: madus22 ( $2240.00 USD )
ju_pokerr posts small blind [$100.00 USD].
PHILLIIVEY1 posts big blind [$200.00 USD].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to PHILLIIVEY1 [ Td Ac ]
Jukarz folds
madus22 folds
Behasnor folds
ju_pokerr raises [$3495.00 USD]

[JodaB.]

Ya you did, you took the journey.

So we have a lot cover here, like tons, but we'll get it, and it will all make sense. I can almost read your soul by this post this is such and important hand.

Why is it so important? Because if our bvb shoving and calling isn't accurate, then our button, cutoff HJ.....all the way to utg pushing and calling CAN'T be accurate!

So once we fix this huge leak, the rest of our game will fall into place!

[JodaB.]

So, here's how we learn this fast.

You are going to act on faith, and not on logic and reason. That is you are going to play how I tell you, because the math is boring and sux.

BVB 10bbs or less if you are in the sb, and folds to you, you are going to shove every single time. You are going to shove 72o, 83o, 52o EVERYTHING.

And I want you to post your loosest shoves! I want you to be proud of shoving 9bbs early game into the bb with 92o!

So this is your new religion, once you prove to me that you shove all these spots we can go from there.




and just to be clear by simply shoving 72o 10bbs effective blind vs blind you are plugging a leak and you will win more instantly.

[sngking]

hmmmm, I can get hands from sb raise unopened in hold em manager but that looks like as close I can get to the above situation.

[JodaB.]

hmmmm, I can get hands from sb raise unopened in hold em manager but that looks like as close I can get to the above situation.

You can get closer by actually playing and finding spots were it folds to us in the sb and we jam any two cards (ATC) with 10bbs or less

< ^ ^ >

[JodaB.]

I don't want to see a hand history for discussion, I want you to post a hand history where you actually DID what I am saying. I want you to prove that you applied this to your game.

I don't want to see you shove A2s from the small blind, I want to see you shove 82o or something weak

[sngking]

Playing another 27 man now, will see what happens

Feel free to drop bye and say hi.

[JodaB.]

Playing another 27 man now, will see what happens

Feel free to drop bye and say hi.

also start raising everything 3x pre antes and min raising with antes.

That might seem kinda daunting but we will sort out 'bet sizing', so the first thing we do to sort it our is make it suuuuper simple:

Full 3x with no antes ;min raise with antes

[JodaB.]

sick he hit a gutshot there, amazing when people do that.

[sngking]

sick he hit a gutshot there, amazing when people do that.

lol.

Trying again right now I guess. :oops

[JodaB.]

So that KK hand was NOT a leak, you played fine, now what happens in poker can be explained best by the will of the force.

When we shove 72o bvb for 10bbs, we begin to magically win in spots where we raise KK pre and have a guy check call the flop.

By shoving atc bvb, we win more often in other parts of our game.[i]

mediocre winning players will disagree with me and call me stupid and silly, but really really good poker players will completely agree.

[sngking]

Also at least you did not give a " that's standard, why are you asking" answer like a few on that other forum.

[JodaB.]

Also at least you did not give a " that's standard, why are you asking" answer like a few on that other forum.

Yes you see I believe in studying fundamentals, because when you have a missing fundamental it spreads to ALL your advanced stuff. So when you fix the foundation you fix everything.


It is a very good question and I want to SEE that you have learned to shove ATC bvb 10bbs effective or less. Because then you will be playing correctly, and it will be easier to then understand WHY we are doing this.

So play some sngs', or if you filter through your games and find a spot where you folded but you now know you should shove then post it and will see if thats correct.

I would still want to know that you did it IN game, because its a little scary at first especially in the money, but we ill still shove 72o in the money bvb

[JodaB.]

PokerStars Hand #94222022460: Tournament #691347679, $1.29+$0.21 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level III (25/50) - 2013/02/17 20:10:53 CT [2013/02/17 21:10:53 ET]
Table '691347679 3' 9-max Seat #6 is the button
Seat 1: PHILLIIVEY1 (1455 in chips)
Seat 4: sonlog (3956 in chips)
Seat 5: jclaudioe (5041 in chips)
Seat 6: chili1414 (1160 in chips)
Seat 8: caiocruzzz (1010 in chips)
Seat 9: AplauzoBocao (2378 in chips)
caiocruzzz: posts small blind 25
AplauzoBocao: posts big blind 50
*** HOLE CARDS ***
PHILLIIVEY1: raises 100 to 150
sonlog: calls 150
jclaudioe: folds
chili1414: calls 150
caiocruzzz: folds
AplauzoBocao: calls 100
*** FLOP *** [7s Ts As]
AplauzoBocao: checks
PHILLIIVEY1: checks
sonlog: bets 300
chili1414: folds
AplauzoBocao: folds
PHILLIIVEY1: calls 300
*** TURN *** [7s Ts As] [7d]
PHILLIIVEY1: checks
sonlog: bets 650
PHILLIIVEY1: raises 355 to 1005 and is all-in
sonlog: calls 355
*** RIVER *** [7s Ts As 7d] [6h]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
PHILLIIVEY1: shows [Qh Ad] (two pair, Aces and Sevens)
sonlog: shows [Ks 9c] (a pair of Sevens)
PHILLIIVEY1 collected 3235 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 3235 | Rake 0
Board [7s Ts As 7d 6h]
Seat 1: PHILLIIVEY1 showed [Qh Ad] and won (3235) with two pair, Aces and Sevens
Seat 4: sonlog showed [Ks 9c] and lost with a pair of Sevens
Seat 5: jclaudioe folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: chili1414 (button) folded on the Flop
Seat 8: caiocruzzz (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 9: AplauzoBocao (big blind) folded on the Flop

The force is already working because it knows you are going to start shoving atc bvb 10bbs eff.

[JodaB.]

PokerStars Hand #94222669630: Tournament #691347679, $1.29+$0.21 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level V (75/150) - 2013/02/17 20:34:42 CT [2013/02/17 21:34:42 ET]
Table '691347679 1' 9-max Seat #6 is the button
Seat 2: PHILLIIVEY1 (7939 in chips)
Seat 3: WoooooM (1455 in chips)
Seat 4: dom franklin (2090 in chips)
Seat 5: Zanuto2012 (1678 in chips)
Seat 6: ankamp2121 (10533 in chips)
PHILLIIVEY1: posts small blind 75
WoooooM: posts big blind 150
*** HOLE CARDS ***
dom franklin: folds
Zanuto2012: folds
ankamp2121: calls 150
PHILLIIVEY1: calls 75
WoooooM: checks
*** FLOP *** [6s 3c 4d]
PHILLIIVEY1: checks
WoooooM: bets 150
ankamp2121: calls 150
PHILLIIVEY1: calls 150
*** TURN *** [6s 3c 4d] [7s]
PHILLIIVEY1: checks
WoooooM: bets 450
ankamp2121: folds
PHILLIIVEY1: folds
Uncalled bet (450) returned to WoooooM
WoooooM collected 900 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 900 | Rake 0
Board [6s 3c 4d 7s]
Seat 2: PHILLIIVEY1 (small blind) folded on the Turn
Seat 3: WoooooM (big blind) collected (900)
Seat 4: dom franklin folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: Zanuto2012 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: ankamp2121 (button) folded on the Turn

This would been the one right? You woulda shoved without looking at your cards right?

[sngking]

So not quite what you're looking for cause it's not ragged,lol


PokerStars Hand #94222833467: Tournament #691347679, $1.29+$0.21 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level VI (100/200) - 2013/02/17 21:41:05 ET
Table '691347679 1' 9-max Seat #6 is the button
Seat 2: PHILLIIVEY1 (7786 in chips)
Seat 3: WoooooM (1868 in chips)
Seat 4: dom franklin (2690 in chips)
Seat 5: Zanuto2012 (4343 in chips)
Seat 6: ankamp2121 (7008 in chips)
PHILLIIVEY1: posts small blind 100
WoooooM: posts big blind 200
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to PHILLIIVEY1 [9s 9d]
dom franklin: folds
Zanuto2012: folds
ankamp2121: folds
PHILLIIVEY1: raises 7586 to 7786 and is all-in
WoooooM: folds
Uncalled bet (7586) returned to PHILLIIVEY1
PHILLIIVEY1 collected 400 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 400 | Rake 0
Seat 2: PHILLIIVEY1 (small blind) collected (400)
Seat 3: WoooooM (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 4: dom franklin folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: Zanuto2012 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: ankamp2121 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)

[JodaB.]

ya exactly, but would you have seriously shoved 72o there?

[JodaB.]

What did you limp here?

PokerStars Hand #94223821098: Tournament #691347679, $1.29+$0.21 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level IX (200/400) - 2013/02/17 21:24:31 CT [2013/02/17 22:24:31 ET]
Table '691347679 3' 9-max Seat #7 is the button
Seat 1: ankamp2121 (6159 in chips)
Seat 2: nigelgou (8459 in chips)
Seat 3: PHILLIIVEY1 (4631 in chips)
Seat 7: dom franklin (5485 in chips)
Seat 8: stifighterx (7372 in chips)
Seat 9: Zanuto2012 (8394 in chips)
ankamp2121: posts the ante 25
nigelgou: posts the ante 25
PHILLIIVEY1: posts the ante 25
dom franklin: posts the ante 25
stifighterx: posts the ante 25
Zanuto2012: posts the ante 25
stifighterx: posts small blind 200
Zanuto2012: posts big blind 400
*** HOLE CARDS ***
ankamp2121: calls 400
nigelgou: folds
PHILLIIVEY1: calls 400

[JodaB.]

This is it...what did you fold and why?

PokerStars Hand #94223869464: Tournament #691347679, $1.29+$0.21 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level X (300/600) - 2013/02/17 21:26:44 CT [2013/02/17 22:26:44 ET]
Table '691347679 3' 9-max Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: ankamp2121 (5568 in chips)
Seat 2: nigelgou (9484 in chips)
Seat 3: PHILLIIVEY1 (3456 in chips)
Seat 7: dom franklin (5126 in chips)
Seat 8: stifighterx (6997 in chips)
Seat 9: Zanuto2012 (9869 in chips)
ankamp2121: posts the ante 50
nigelgou: posts the ante 50
PHILLIIVEY1: posts the ante 50
dom franklin: posts the ante 50
stifighterx: posts the ante 50
Zanuto2012: posts the ante 50
PHILLIIVEY1: posts small blind 300
dom franklin: posts big blind 600
*** HOLE CARDS ***
stifighterx: folds
Zanuto2012: folds
ankamp2121: folds
nigelgou: folds
PHILLIIVEY1: folds

[JodaB.]

Damn, i lost ya?

[sngking]

Damn, i lost ya?

Won the game but.............


No my hold em manager lost the game in the reports.

[JodaB.]

Damn, i lost ya?

Won the game but.............


No my hold em manager lost the game in the reports.

ok back on topic, the hand history questions above. 2 of them ^^^

[sngking]

During this time I was getting frustrated, it was A9 suited, I know it was bad.




quote="JodaB."]What did you limp here?

PokerStars Hand #94223821098: Tournament #691347679, $1.29+$0.21 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level IX (200/400) - 2013/02/17 21:24:31 CT [2013/02/17 22:24:31 ET]
Table '691347679 3' 9-max Seat #7 is the button
Seat 1: ankamp2121 (6159 in chips)
Seat 2: nigelgou (8459 in chips)
Seat 3: PHILLIIVEY1 (4631 in chips)
Seat 7: dom franklin (5485 in chips)
Seat 8: stifighterx (7372 in chips)
Seat 9: Zanuto2012 (8394 in chips)
ankamp2121: posts the ante 25
nigelgou: posts the ante 25
PHILLIIVEY1: posts the ante 25
dom franklin: posts the ante 25
stifighterx: posts the ante 25
Zanuto2012: posts the ante 25
stifighterx: posts small blind 200
Zanuto2012: posts big blind 400
*** HOLE CARDS ***
ankamp2121: calls 400
nigelgou: folds
PHILLIIVEY1: calls 400

[/quote]

[JodaB.]

During this time I was getting frustrated, it was A9 suited, I know it was bad.




quote="JodaB."]What did you limp here?

PokerStars Hand #94223821098: Tournament #691347679, $1.29+$0.21 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level IX (200/400) - 2013/02/17 21:24:31 CT [2013/02/17 22:24:31 ET]
Table '691347679 3' 9-max Seat #7 is the button
Seat 1: ankamp2121 (6159 in chips)
Seat 2: nigelgou (8459 in chips)
Seat 3: PHILLIIVEY1 (4631 in chips)
Seat 7: dom franklin (5485 in chips)
Seat 8: stifighterx (7372 in chips)
Seat 9: Zanuto2012 (8394 in chips)
ankamp2121: posts the ante 25
nigelgou: posts the ante 25
PHILLIIVEY1: posts the ante 25
dom franklin: posts the ante 25
stifighterx: posts the ante 25
Zanuto2012: posts the ante 25
stifighterx: posts small blind 200
Zanuto2012: posts big blind 400
*** HOLE CARDS ***
ankamp2121: calls 400
nigelgou: folds
PHILLIIVEY1: calls 400

[/quote]cool thats okay, remember anger blinds ;p

Anyways i thought you were set mining and its just too short to do it.

With 10bbs or less we should always be shove or folding, and we almost NEVER limp (remember we are tight AGGRESSIVE).

So if you are going to limp then instead you should raise and if you are raising with 10bbs here then you should shove. So shoving is better than limping here and not at all unreasonable.

How about the other hand?

[RWPKRPLR1]

Weird were you guys reading watching my game tonight. I was going to post a BVB hand, which involved me pushing JTo into 10BB stack. This thread sums it up!!

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