Range the Blinds

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Re: Range the Blinds

Post  RWPKRPLR1 on Thu Aug 01, 2013 6:59 pm

And if they see us shoving wide we can go back to our value range.

Playing cat an mouse

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Re: Range the Blinds

Post  JodaB. on Thu Aug 01, 2013 7:04 pm

Give one more try and then I'll explain

The question is if villain knows you min raise qq kk aa, what can they assume about your shove range?
RWPKRPLR1 wrote:It's tight and we can open up
Nothing suggests anyone is tight other than your min raise range.

RWPKRPLR1 wrote:And if they see us shoving wide we can go back to our value range.

Playing cat an mouse
This is another story, they don't know we are shoving 'wide', they know that we min raise qq kk aa, so what can they assume when we shove?
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Re: Range the Blinds

Post  RWPKRPLR1 on Thu Aug 01, 2013 7:06 pm

Nutted hands

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Re: Range the Blinds

Post  JodaB. on Thu Aug 01, 2013 7:07 pm

RWPKRPLR1 wrote:Nutted hands
I thought you said you were min raising your nutted hands?
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Re: Range the Blinds

Post  RWPKRPLR1 on Thu Aug 01, 2013 7:14 pm

JodaB. wrote:
RWPKRPLR1 wrote:Nutted hands
I thought you said you were min raising your nutted hands?

I thought we agreed that we should just shove to avoid being exploited, except when we have a rec player.
so i was talking about the shove


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Re: Range the Blinds

Post  JodaB. on Thu Aug 01, 2013 7:15 pm

RWPKRPLR1 wrote:
JodaB. wrote:
RWPKRPLR1 wrote:Nutted hands
I thought you said you were min raising your nutted hands?

I thought  we agreed that we should just shove to avoid being exploited, except when we have a rec player.
so i was talking about the shove

The question is...if villain sees that we min raise our nut hands, what will they assume about our shoves?
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Re: Range the Blinds

Post  RWPKRPLR1 on Thu Aug 01, 2013 7:22 pm

that we're shoving non nutted hands, which will open them up

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Re: Range the Blinds

Post  JodaB. on Thu Aug 01, 2013 7:36 pm

RWPKRPLR1 wrote:that we're shoving  non nutted hands, which will open them up
Yes what I am getting at is the answer to your question 'we can min call < 10bbs right?'

we can vs randoms sometimes. But if we do it vs regs the danger is that they will fold hands like TT vs our min raise because they know our range is QQ+.

But!

They also know they can call wider vs our shove range because we are capped. We never have QQ+ because they know we only min raise it.

If they knew that then they could exploit both our min raise, AND our shoving ranges. But 1. calling our min raises (or 3bet shoving) super tight, 2. calling vs our shoves wider than normal.

So don't get ahead of yourself in think what villain does and what we do.

We just want to understand that by seeing 1 move (min raising QQ) the villain can learn 2 things.
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Re: Range the Blinds

Post  RWPKRPLR1 on Thu Aug 01, 2013 7:46 pm

So don't get ahead of yourself in think what villain does and what we do. <<

did you mean ***in thinking what villain does, is what we do?

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Re: Range the Blinds

Post  JodaB. on Thu Aug 01, 2013 7:49 pm

RWPKRPLR1 wrote:So don't get ahead of yourself in think what villain does and what we do. <<

did you mean ***in thinking what villain does, is what we do?
I don't know what the blanked word means, but I'm telling you not to think and talk about villains readjustments and our readjustments and the cat and mouse game.

I'm asking if you clear that once a good villain sees us min raise qq with 10bbs, then they can also figure out we are not shoving qq with 10bbs. Therefore if we shove, villain can reason we have a weak shove range that doesn't include qq kk aa.

So I'm suggesting you not try and relate this to anything else yet, but to make sure you are clear on what I mean be villain learn two things of our one min raise.
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Re: Range the Blinds

Post  RWPKRPLR1 on Thu Aug 01, 2013 8:05 pm

Ya it's clear..

and that was not a full word, didnt space the asterisk and 'in'

I'm now going to go back to working on 12bb+ button play..

For now I'm going to review this thread and write up a recap of what I have learned so I don't go over something i already know, and to help me get back into the grove on monday.

I might be on tomorrow, but Sat and Sun the GF and I will be out. so Monday I will be back with some more HH analysis.

Thank you

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Re: Range the Blinds

Post  JodaB. on Thu Aug 01, 2013 8:13 pm

RWPKRPLR1 wrote:Ya it's clear..

and that was not a full word, didnt space the asterisk and 'in'

I'm now going to go back to working on 12bb+ button play..

For now I'm going to review this thread and write up a recap of what I have learned so I don't go over something i already know, and to help me get back into the grove on monday.

I might be on tomorrow, but Sat and Sun the GF and I will be out. so Monday I will be back with some more HH analysis.

Thank you
no worries, am camping for the weekend, on a small vacation here Wink

So if you understand that each play shows 2 things.

So if a villain limp AA pre, then we can assume they limp AA...BUT we can also realize if they raise they do not likely have AA.


The next step from here is to start having some 1 table session where all you do is take notes on all players. Then you begin to think of there plays in 2 stages 1)what you see them do 2) what you can assume they are not doing.

If a player shoves AA for 20bbs, then we realize they aren't min raising AA with 20bbs.

This is how you build a 2nd level understanding of the game, through notes and 2stage analysis.
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Re: Range the Blinds

Post  RWPKRPLR1 on Thu Aug 01, 2013 8:33 pm

nice i will do that next week!!Very Happy 

enjoy your camping trip!! we're just going to go find a beach somewhere and lax all day sunday and a big BDay party for my GF's sisters 40th lol going to put 40 pink flamingos on her front lawn lol

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